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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:59:43 AM PACIFIC |
 Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, HW, 3. Oct 2003 10:11 | ||
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| Playing at the 3/6 and 5/10 tables on line I have had great success as of late ( winning 6 out of every 7 or so sessions ) for the past month. I am trying to follow Lee Jones' clear and concise advise in book on low limit hold em, while playing by feel and being aggressive. It's seems to be working for the most part. ( I will, however, still get hit hard occasionally by a pair of pocket 44 beating my AK on the river with a board like A49 (rainbow) and then K2, or something like that) My question is what is the most significant change in play at the 10/20. The play does not seem significantly tighter pre-flop. Comments please. | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, Mark, 3. Oct 2003 10:30 | ||
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| I play very little of 10-20 online ( i don't leave a big bankroll online), but i do watch the game on occassion looking for a weak table. The game does tend to be tighter than 5-10, but it depends on the players. Just like 5-10 tends to be tighter than 3-6, some days you will find a wild and crazy 5-10 game with people playing all sorts of garbage hands and winning with them. Same goes for 10-20. The play seems to be better as you move up. There are less people drawing thin, more semi bluff raises, better hand reading, more adapting to the current situation, and a better understanding of general theory. Players still have leaks, but it will be a little harder to find them. If you want to take a shot, go for it. My advice would be to play very tight-aggressive until you get a feel for the game and get to know the players. If the only book you have is Lee Jones Low limt hold'em, a better idea may be to cashout for $200, and buy 8 or 9 stadegy books (conjelco.com has a good selection) , throw in Amarillo Slim's - A world full of Fat people, and Anthony Holden's - Big Deal, for entertainment value. Read and re-read the books while re-building your bank roll and taking the odd shot at 10-20. I've found Roy Cooke's Real Poker II, The Play of Hands, and Briar-Ciaffone's Middle Limit Hold'em to have tremedously improved my ring game play. Good luck. mark | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, HW, 7. Oct 2003 06:50 | ||
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| Thanks, Mark. I was unaware of the Cioffione book. Your take on 10/20 seems right-- less chasing, more deception. I have noticed more slow play on the flop ( with a set/ Aw/ high kicker ) then Lee Jones would recommend and then check raising on the turn. I suppose I need to make the best of it when I've got a hand but I tend to still play straight forward and try to drive out the drawing hands early, shrinking the pot. | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, Barry T, 4. Oct 2003 12:22 | ||
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| Hi. THere are some better players at 10-20, and some of the same ones you already beat. First, though, realize that your win percentsge is not an important number. Your win rate in $/hr is. Be sure you have played at least a couple of thoussand hands before you decide how well you play. Even that is not enough, but few people are willing to play more before making a decision. If you have made a lot of money, try the 10-20. If you do not like it, go back. Just do not feel that if you play 10-20, "you are a 10-20 player" and that it is terrible if you return to 5-10. Mark is right; you need a lot more studying. I do not know about 9 strategy books (and I would not support Amarillo Slim now that he is confessed child molester), but Sklansky and Malmuth HFAP, Brier and Ciaffone WMLP, and Theory of Poker by Sklansky should be mandatory. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, Barry T, 4. Oct 2003 12:26 | ||
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| Hi. I cannnot find corroboration for that fact Slim confessed, even though I have heard it from more than one source. He has been indicted on three counts of inappropriate touching of a chiild. I am sorry if I mislead anyone to feel he had confessed, when I have no true knowledge of that. BarryT But I still would not buy his book. | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, Mark, 4. Oct 2003 20:34 | ||
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| It's a great read non the less. I'm not dismissing molestation, but until he does publicly admit to it, or is found guilty, we shouldn't condem him. Mark | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, mkpoker, 4. Oct 2003 23:33 | ||
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| FYI, Here's a link to a local news article about the indictments. The story is that Slim made a partial confession to a DA, who then had to recuse himself because he needed to testify before the grand jury. Slim is now under indictment on three counts of sexual abuse of a minor...and that fact alone makes me glad I didn't buy his book. http://www.amarilloglobenews.com/stories/080903/new_randallindicts.shtml | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, Angel, 10. Oct 2003 21:02 | ||
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| I've always liked Slim and if he did do such a thing, then I would feel kind of betrayed - as if I were lured into thinking he was a nice guy when actually he was anything but. That being said, I'm going to wait for more information before making a decision on this. The way this world is these days it pays to accuse - heck you might get your own talk show if you accuse someone famous enough. While I don't believe that there is a punishment severe enough for him if he is guilty - I didn't go into teaching specifically because I was a single parent and was not going to risk that relationship because I wasn't thinking and dusted some 2nd grader off who had fallen in the playground and without thinking gave her a pat on the butt to send her on her way and find myself brought up on charges by some fanatical parent. If I 'admitted' to the above hypothetical act - I bet it would get reported just like that article this thread linked to. Let's wait and see. | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, shutupndeal, 8. Oct 2003 17:23 | ||
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| This is a tough one, probably the ONSLAUGHT of pros you are going to encounter. You wont see it in the pre-flop strategy for the most part, the real difference is in how well these dudes read hands, play AFTER the flop which is MUCH MORE important than play b4 the flop and psychology of other players and online its kinda tough but in live play I would even dare say the game itself, picking the right game for you is EVERYTHING. You can find a 10-20 game where the competition isnt all that and then you think, wow I can handle this and I cant wait to try 15-30, THEN your next game you get blown out like something shot from the eye of the hurricane and your wondering, WTF did I do wrong? Know what happened? You ran into the WRONG GAME, players who are running bad will fall into smaller games and they can literally eat up a 10-20 game, sometimes you fall into a game where there can be a few of the better players because the game they wanted isnt open tonight and so they all played this for action instead of doing nothing. 10-20 is what I would say and prob most pros agree is the cut-off point for a pro, anything lower is kind of tough to grind that living out and also, you WONT find too many unseasoned players at these games either. Its nothing like the smaller stakes where you have a few fish and a few good players, there isnt anymore fish, thats over! lol Listen to me also, to seriously move up you REALLY-REALLY need to be ready for this, take it seriously slow, and remember that people online play lower limits than they do live for a number of reasons and so thats why you can find Phil Helmuth at 4-8 and so what Im saying is, at a 10-20 game on the net you may be playing "God knows who" understand? Stick to building your bankroll right now for the "live" games where you can go in and see the games and the competition, these are your best bet, I wish you well and I am really looking out for you when I tell you that you DONT want to start first playing 10-20 online, PLEASE take my word on this one and let me know how you make out! Theres a few 6-12 games I think somewhere, maybe "True poker" and I would MUCH rather see you in that where the lmits arent quite as high, and the play is good, the action is good and thats where a LOT of players like yourself are trying their luck and testing their new found skills try to find a game like that and remember to let us know about it! Maybe we will come and join ya! Good Luck! | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, modestmice, 8. Oct 2003 19:12 | ||
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| phil hell plays 4-8 because he is affiliated with UB. i would think its obvious he isnt there to make money, but to attract players. otherwise you post is pretty good advice. on 8. Oct 2003 17:23 shutupndeal wrote: > This is a tough one, probably the ONSLAUGHT of pros you are going to encounter. You > wont see it in the pre-flop strategy for the most part, the real difference is in how > well these dudes read hands, play AFTER the flop which is MUCH MORE important than > play b4 the flop and psychology of other players and online its kinda tough but in > live play I would even dare say the game itself, picking the right game for you is > EVERYTHING. You can find a 10-20 game where the competition isnt all that and then > you think, wow I can handle this and I cant wait to try 15-30, THEN your next game > you get blown out like something shot from the eye of the hurricane and your > wondering, WTF did I do wrong? Know what happened? You ran into the WRONG GAME, > players who are running bad will fall into smaller games and they can literally eat > up a 10-20 game, sometimes you fall into a game where there can be a few of the > better players because the game they wanted isnt open tonight and so they all played > this for action instead of doing nothing. 10-20 is what I would say and prob most > pros agree is the cut-off point for a pro, anything lower is kind of tough to grind > that living out and also, you WONT find too many unseasoned players at these games > either. Its nothing like the smaller stakes where you have a few fish and a few good > players, there isnt anymore fish, thats over! lol > Listen to me also, to seriously move up you REALLY-REALLY need to be > ready for this, take it seriously slow, and remember that people online play lower > limits than they do live for a number of reasons and so thats why you can find Phil > Helmuth at 4-8 and so what Im saying is, at a 10-20 game on the net you may be > playing "God knows who" understand? Stick to building your bankroll right now for the > "live" games where you can go in and see the games and the competition, these are > your best bet, I wish you well and I am really looking out for you when I tell you > that you DONT want to start first playing 10-20 online, PLEASE take my word on this > one and let me know how you make out! Theres a few 6-12 games I think somewhere, > maybe "True poker" and I would MUCH rather see you in that where the lmits arent > quite as high, and the play is good, the action is good and thats where a LOT of > players like yourself are trying their luck and testing their new found skills try to > find a game like that and remember to let us know about it! Maybe we will come and > join ya! Good Luck! | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, shutupndeal, 10. Oct 2003 20:41 | ||
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| "phil hell plays 4-8 because he is affiliated with UB. i would think its obvious he isnt there to make money, but to attract players. otherwise you post is pretty good advice." I meant that as a joke but I forgot to finish the thought, or deliver the punchline I guess, I think most of us know that Phil can well afford to play online poker for about anything he wants to but thanx for pointing that out just in case it was misunderstood! : ) I do want to point out though that you WILL get a LOT of players playing below their normal limits for a lot of reasons and I dont want to go into all of them here as some of these things prob only really exist in the back of our minds if you know what I mean and I am sure you do! : ) I know quite a few players who for one reason or another play well below our normal games and so I do mean it when I say that there are some serious sharks in these waters once you approach 10-20, and a "live" game is the place to start a new chapter to your career . While I do like online play for one reason though and that is I feel there are MANY many players who for whatever reason are either intimidated to play in a casino, dont have the time and so they play online and things like that so the games online I have found for the most part to be decent games, HOWEVER like I said, theres a LOT of people who also know this and so we are trolling in these smaller limits and the wrong game online and your finito, believe me! Ya think maybe Phil really is broke come to think of it? | ||
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| Re: Moving up online from 3/6 and 5/10 to 10/20, modestmice, 10. Oct 2003 20:44 | ||
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| aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, lol makes more sense now , dude on 10. Oct 2003 20:41 shutupndeal wrote: > "phil hell plays 4-8 because he is affiliated with UB. i would think its obvious he isnt there > to make money, but to attract players. otherwise you post is pretty good advice." > > I meant that as a joke but I forgot to finish the thought, or deliver the punchline I guess, > I think most of us know that Phil can well afford to play online poker for about anything he > wants to but thanx for pointing that out just in case it was misunderstood! : ) > I do want to point out though that you WILL get a LOT of players playing below their normal > limits for a lot of reasons and I dont want to go into all of them here as some of these things > prob only really exist in the back of our minds if you know what I mean and I am sure you do! > : ) > I know quite a few players who for one reason or another play well below our normal games > and so I do mean it when I say that there are some serious sharks in these waters once you > approach 10-20, and a "live" game is the place to start a new chapter to your career . While I > do like online play for one reason though and that is I feel there are MANY many players who > for whatever reason are either intimidated to play in a casino, dont have the time and so they > play online and things like that so the games online I have found for the most part to be > decent games, HOWEVER like I said, theres a LOT of people who also know this and so we are > trolling in these smaller limits and the wrong game online and your finito, believe me! > Ya think maybe Phil really is broke come to think of it? > | ||
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