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Server Time: 8/20/2008 3:34:03 AM PACIFIC |
 Raising on a straight draw, HW, 2. Oct 2003 07:10 | ||
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| In a 3/6 game on UB I was yelled at for raising on the flop with a str8 draw. I had TJo in LP, EP bets, a few calls, I call. Flop is 9,Q,3 rainbow. EP bets, a few folds, a call, I re-raise. If i don't hit it on the turn and there's action I'll probably let it go. The turn's the 8, I bet out from there and win. The original bettor had QQ and complains about my raise on the flop. Comments please. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Eman, 2. Oct 2003 07:12 | ||
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| I like your raise in late position. If they check after the turn you can check and get to see the river for free!!!! | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Eman, 2. Oct 2003 07:22 | ||
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| Actually he misplayed his hand. He should have reraised you raise, make you pay for drawing, and possiblity of you folding after his reraise. He misplayed it. Just because he flopped a set of Q's he thinks he deserves the pot.!!! | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Mark Barnett II, 2. Oct 2003 08:38 | ||
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| ok from what im reading, after the flop you have the bettor one caller and you still in the pot. if you call you can call on the turn and get pot odds for the call, by raising you give the bettor a chance to reraise scare off the last caller and be heads up which is not what you really want with a draw, and your not afraid of a flush draw being out there. had there been one more *prefer more* caller in between then raising with implied odds would be an option here but with at most 2 others in the pot thats reallllllly pushing it. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, HW, 2. Oct 2003 09:04 | ||
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| Thanks for the reply. It happens very fast: On instinct I feel good about the open ended str8 draw, the board looks good only for me, and I re-raise to get information and maybe intimidate. It aggressive, which I am finding out is a big factor in on-line play ( but not maniac- raise-all-the-time agressive). If I don't hit it on the turn, check and fold. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Schuster, 2. Oct 2003 10:44 | ||
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| If you don't hit on the turn, you'll still have ample pot odds to call and see if it you hit on the river. Don't give up too easily when the pot is large enough. Lee | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Blade, 6. Oct 2003 14:09 | ||
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| What is this instinct to which you are referring. The reason I ask is I have encountered many a player who will play a hand differently then they normally would based on some sort of "instinct" as to what cards are going to come. An extreme example someone calling a 8-3o because he had a feeling. Players like this suck and will always suck and deserve to go to sucky player hell (where there are no bad beats). If you were referring to the fact that if you make your str8 it is likely the nuts than OK. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Blue Sky, 2. Oct 2003 11:13 | ||
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| HW, I like your play here, after the flop. I have some doubt about calling with J10o from LP with a raise in front of you. (if suited then a no brainer with a fair amount of callers ahead of you but unsuited I probably would of folded.) Next time you post a hand if you give clearer information we will be able to help you out a little easier. We need to know the exact number of players in a hand, so that we can calculate the correct odds, by only saying a few callers we have no way of determining the exact pot odds. Also give some information as to the players skill level and style of play if known, are they weak, tight, aggressive, etc.? From the rough calculations based on my assumptions from your post after the flop you were getting roughly 11:1 on a call and 5.5:1 on a raise against a little better then 5:1 odds for making your hand...therefore the raise is justified based on the odds. Mark mentioned below that you want to keep as many people in the pot as possible on a draw which I agree with but I still think your raise here was warrented for a couple of reasons. By raising your getting in close to the same money with just one caller and if he re-raised as he should of you would of had the same money in the pot anyways. You also have the opportunity for a free card on the turn if you missed your hand. Keep posting hands, Its going to raise your game quickly. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, ManicStarSeed, 6. Oct 2003 14:31 | ||
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| Somewhat related... In mid or late position, I found that betting (not checking) when I have "4 to an open ended straight... on the flop" to be profitable. It might be instinct, but when there are 6-8 people in a ragged looking pot, I perfer to bet. Usually 2 or three people drop, but the others just call. I rather pay for my card when I am geting 4 or 6-to-1 on my straight. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, Husker66, 7. Oct 2003 13:24 | ||
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| WELL PLAYED. | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, kennycatkiller, 12. Oct 2003 21:08 | ||
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| Nothing wrong with occasionally raising with nothing. Your raise probably did eliminate calls from some of the stragglers, though, and, since it was on the flop, was only half the size of a raise you could have made on the turn (or river). Of course, if I had been the guy with the pocket Queens and had made a set, I would have re-raised (and forced you to make a decision whether to continue). In the actual case, he lost less than I would have, but you were going up-hill to draw your straight. Further, he still had outs--like pairing the board or the fourth Queen. That is poker! Kennycatkiller | ||
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| Re: Raising on a straight draw, ADAM THE EXPERT, 24. Oct 2003 02:27 | ||
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| I'M SURE HE WAS REALLY COMPLAINING, NOT BECAUSE YOU RAISED, BUT BECAUSE YOU BEAT HIS SET!!! ALTHOUGH ADAM THE EXPERT DOES IT ALL THE TIME (BAD TEMPER) NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT, TO COMPLAIN, ABOUT ANY BET ANYONE MAKES, UNLESS OF COURSE, IT WAS PART OF PARTNERSHIP PLAY!!!!! I WOULD JUST SUGGEST RESPONDING WITH THE PHRAZE "WHO WON THE POT" GOOD PLAYERS HATE THIS, AS IT FAILS TO RECOGNIZE THAT WINNING POTS, IS NOT WHAT POKER IS ALL ABOUT. NOW, AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT THIS RAISE WAS TACTICALLY SOUND, I WOULD LIMIT MYSELF, TO MORE PLAYERS, AND BETTER STRAIGHT DRAWS. AN OVERCARD STRAIGHT DRAW, IS FAR, FAR, FAR SUPERIOR, TO A NON-OVERCARD STRAIGHT DRAW. AND, YOU WERE ONLY GETTING TWO TO ONE POT ODDS, AND IT'S SLIGHTY MORE THAN TWO TO ONE AGAINST HITTING. OF COURSE, ANOTHER REASON TO RAISE, IS TO TRY TO GET A FREE CARD ON THE TURN, BUT IT'S STILL BETTER, TO GET THREE OR MORE PLAYERS IN, BEFORE YOU RAISE. IF THREE PLAYERS BEHIND YOU, WERE WILLING TO CALL, WITH SOME HOPELESS JUNK, DO YOU REALLY WANT THEM GONE, IF YOU MAKE YOUR HAND.? SO, DON'T LET THEM GET TO YOU!!!! IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN, RESPOND WITH WHATEVER YOU THINK WILL MAKE THE COMPLAINER, THE MOST MAD!!! SINCE HE STARTED IT, YOU KNOW HAVE THE RIGHT, TO FINISH IT. TRY "OH, I'M TERRIBLY SORRY, I CAN'T SEE WELL, AND THOUGHT THAT THE THREE, WAS AN EIGHT, AND I ALREADY HAD THE STRAIGHT" THAT''LL DRIVE 'EM CRAZY, AND PERHAPS CAUSE THEM TO CONTINUE RAISING YOU, THE NEXT TIME YOU HAVE THE NUTS, HOPING YOU HAVE ANOTHER MISREAD HAND. | ||
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