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Server Time: 8/21/2008 9:49:43 PM PACIFIC |
 Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, kimmi690, 1. Oct 2003 17:57 | ||
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| When is the best time to play a deuce? I throw them away all the time and really never stick w the pps either...when should you play them, in what circumstances? Thanks Kimmi :) | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, Brian462, 1. Oct 2003 18:13 | ||
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| If I am basically sure that I can get to the flop without being raised I will play them to see if I can make a set. Otherwise they are trash. Alot of people don't play them at all I would imagine. | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, SendMoney, 1. Oct 2003 18:40 | ||
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| For the most part we can put pocket pairs into groups, the best being the big pairs of AA KK QQ JJ, the mid pairs being 1010 99 88 77, and the small pairs being 66 55 44 33 22. The big pairs are the surest bet in Hold Em, since at the end of the hand you will have no less than a pair of aces, a pair of kings, etc. - and that by itself is good enough to win a lot of pots. Even then your hand is not invincible, anytime there is an A on the flop when you hold KK QQ JJ or lower you have a major problem if there are multiple opponents. Concerning the play of small pairs...you should try to limp in with them from late position when there are already 2+ limpers ahead of you. Say when you hold 22 there is a 100% chance there will be overcards on the flop, and since you're not psychic you won't be able to tell when those overcards missed everyone completely. Because of this your strategy is very simple, get a 2 on the flop or fold. Your odds of getting trips on the flop are roughly 11%, so you need roughly 5 players in the hand to get proper pot odds. If there are 2 limpers ahead of you and you're on the button with 22, and you think the SB will call a good percentage of the time then you will have the 5 players you need. You should not play small pairs in early position or UTG unless your game is very loose and very passive, when you can envision multiple limpers most hands. If you call with 22 UTG in a tough game and a player immediately after you raises and drives out everyone else including the blinds then you are stuck out there on an island hoping to flop a set against one player and getting poors pot odds to do so. You should definitely not call a raise with a small pair if you haven't already committed any money to the pot, blinds or otherwise. There is a good chance you'll be up against a bigger pair that has you dominated, so why enter the pot if you don't have to? Another problem with small pairs is set over set. The smaller the pair, the greater chance of this occurring. Example - you hold 22 on the button, you get your 2 limpers ahead of you, you call, the flop comes 9 7 2 rainbow. One of the limpers bets, you raise, the limper re-raises, you cap it...the turn brings an ace...and the limper bets into you. Hmm, you know what you have? A big problem. Now there is a chance the limper has 97 and thinks his two pair is good, and there is a chance he limped in with JJ and thinks he's good, but there is also a chance he has 77 or 99 and if this is the case there is 1 deuce is the deck to bail you out. You shouldn't play Hold Em in mortal fear of set over set, but it does happen on occasion, and when it does it will take a healthy bite out of your bankroll. I'll admit I play the small pairs right down to 22, and occasionally I misplay them pretty badly, by investing money with them by making position bets on the flop when I miss hoping that middle pair won't or bottom pair won't call me down, or just hoping that everyone else missed. All things considered if you're not an expert Hold Em player yet and you simply always folded pocket pairs 66 through 22 regardless of position and number of player except when you're in the blinds I don't think you'll really be losing all that much. 9 times out of 10 you'll missed the flop and should probably fold to a flop bet, and the times that you do hit you could lose to set over set as well as straights, flushes, bigger full houses, etc. The times you do hit and your hand holds up you might not be able to extract maximum bets to make the hand profitable long term. Folding ANY pair before the flop is difficult for an undisciplined player. After all you don't want to be on the sidelines with 22 when the flop comes down 2 2 K do you? Well, routinely muck that dog hand when the circumstances don't justify a call and the other 90% of the time when the flop comes A A K you'll be glad you did. | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, NCD, 1. Oct 2003 19:59 | ||
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| Send Money gave you excellent advice but I know of an oddball situation when 22 is a good play: 22 is "go for launch" if you're short stacked in a tourney and a blind is coming at you from 2 or 3 positions away that will kill you if you have to defend it with 93o. In that case, I'll take my chances with the 22 rather than risk getting mauled by the blind. Who knows, go all in and you may steal the blinds. Or, get in cheap and attack with an all-in after the flop with the bare deuces (you're on you last legs already, why not)... the all-in may steal the pot. NCD | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, SendMoney, 2. Oct 2003 00:52 | ||
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| I should have prefaced my post by saying that my strategy for 22 and other small pairs is for Limit Hold Em cash games only. While many of the same strategies may apply to limit tournaments, the power of ANY pocket pair, deuces included goes up dramatically in No Limit Hold Em tournaments. Hell in many No Limit Hold Em tournaments I've re-raised all-in with pocket 5s when I was in the right situation or extremely short stacked. | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, Jordan, 2. Oct 2003 10:41 | ||
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| I was playing in Bossier City this last weekend and I called a raise from a very tight player with pocket 3's (she had only raised with high pocket pairs). I'm glad I did. The flop came 3-3-x. An unexperienced player bet with 77. She raised and I smooth called the flop. The turn came an ace. The unexperienced player bet again and she raised again. At this point I had a very good feeling she had Aces Full of 3's and I was nervous the last ace would come out (even though the chances are slim). I raised the turn and both players called. The river came a Queen. The unexperienced player bet out again, was raised, and I then reraised again and they both called. I won a $200+ pot in a 4/8 game with my quad 3's over Aces Full and 2 pair. My point is.....the potential to win huge pots with these pairs I think can compensate as long as you aren't calling more than 1 raise and are getting enough callers. | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, Jav, 2. Oct 2003 11:30 | ||
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| You can get lucky with any hand in hold'em; but one hand is not a good basis for deciding if that hand is profitable over the long run. SendMoney's post was informative as to WHEN they are can be good to play. I would never call a raise with them unless I had already put a bet in. | ||
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| Re: Deuces, when to play them and when to toss them?, Blue Sky, 2. Oct 2003 11:34 | ||
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| Jordan, Congrats on the big pot! What you should of done was muck your hand pre-flop. Just because you got there one time we shouldn't use it as an example as to why to play a hand. I've won with 72o from the blind one time but I wouldn't give this as a reason to play it again. You clearly mentioned that the pre-flop raiser was tight and only raising with big pocket pairs. How do you figure your going to win this hand? The odds against you making any hand at all were tremendous. 7.5:1 for trips or even better 407:1 to make quads. You hit the longshot here and good for you but your going to cost yourself alot of money and angst in the future if you continue to play this way. I'm not trying to rip on you, but you made a clearly bad play and were rewarded so now you want to play everytime just the same, you must break from this thought process immediatley. You want to limp in with small pocket pairs and see the flop as cheaply as possible. You then only have two actions once the flop comes...you hit it and raise or you miss and fold. | ||
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