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Server Time: 2/13/2012 1:27:56 AM PACIFIC |
 Calling an "all in", iceman5, 1. Oct 2003 15:28 | ||
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| Ive seen more and more people calling an "all in" with just about any ace. I got knocked out of a 1000 person tourney in 50th place when someone called my "all in" with AT and an ace flopped (I had QQ). Because of the chip counts that we had this one was probably correct for him to call, but it cant possible be correct in most cases. Which brings me to my question. In the AT vs QQ situation. NL SNG Blinds of $50/$100. We both have $2000. AT raises to $200. I go all in. Both blinds fold. Pot is now $2350. The AT now has to call $1800 to win the $2350 already in the pot giving him about 1.3-1 on his money. So is it correct that I would have to have 99 or lower for him to have near the correct odds to call? I realize that he still may not want to risk all his chips in a tourney, Im just asking about the odds. | ||
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| Re: Calling an "all in", Jav, 1. Oct 2003 15:41 | ||
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| I don't think he has the odds. He's behind (barely) to any pair, and dominated by T-T, A-A, A-K, A-Q, and A-J. And he's pretty far behind to any J-J, Q-Q, or K-K. All of which are very possible holdings for someone who raises all-in. Even to hands he has beat pre-flop, he's not a huge favorite to ANY of them. Now, ignoring his bad play, you might have been able to save yourself a chance in the tourney. When he raises to 200, there was probably 350 in the pot (you didn't mention anyone else calling). I think you can make a bet around 550 here. If he comes over the top of you now, I think you probably need to respect the chance of him having A-A or K-K and fold. But he will probably just call, and possibly fold. Now you can see the flop, and make a decision based on that information. If no K or A shows up, and the board isn't crazy (three to a flush, etc), then you can go all-in. But if the flop is scary and he plays the hand hard, then you can fold and still have a reasonable amount of chips. Hands like J-J and Q-Q will knock you out of a lot of tournaments if you play them as if they were K-K and A-A. They are strong holdings, but not one I usually want to gamble my entire tournament on unless I am in a desperate situation. | ||
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| Re: Calling an "all in", modestmouse, 1. Oct 2003 16:05 | ||
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| that is good way to play it. on 1. Oct 2003 15:41 Jav wrote: > I don't think he has the odds. He's behind (barely) to any pair, and dominated by > T-T, A-A, A-K, A-Q, and A-J. And he's pretty far behind to any J-J, Q-Q, or K-K. > All of which are very possible holdings for someone who raises all-in. > > Even to hands he has beat pre-flop, he's not a huge favorite to ANY of them. > > Now, ignoring his bad play, you might have been able to save yourself a chance in > the tourney. When he raises to 200, there was probably 350 in the pot (you didn't > mention anyone else calling). I think you can make a bet around 550 here. If he > comes over the top of you now, I think you probably need to respect the chance of him > having A-A or K-K and fold. But he will probably just call, and possibly fold. > > Now you can see the flop, and make a decision based on that information. If no K or > A shows up, and the board isn't crazy (three to a flush, etc), then you can go > all-in. But if the flop is scary and he plays the hand hard, then you can fold and > still have a reasonable amount of chips. > > Hands like J-J and Q-Q will knock you out of a lot of tournaments if you play them > as if they were K-K and A-A. They are strong holdings, but not one I usually want to > gamble my entire tournament on unless I am in a desperate situation. > > | ||
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| Re: Calling an "all in", iceman5, 1. Oct 2003 16:47 | ||
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| The example I gave was a hypothetical for future knowledge. The actual hand went like this. 1002 person NL tourney. Blinds are up to $1000/$2000. I have $10000. He has about the average of $21000. He raises to $4000. I couldve called to look at the flop but he was under the gun and I was next and wanted to make sure nobody else played the hand so I went all in. This made the pot $17000. He now has to call $6000 which I believe is correct getting 3-1. Is this the correct way to figure how to determine whether or not to call a reraise? Anyway, he called with the AT and caught an ace and Im gone in 50th place. Not too bad I guess but I had been in 15th with about 90 people left. | ||
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| Re: Calling an "all in", Bart Mann, 3. Oct 2003 12:46 | ||
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| Dang, that sounds painfully familiar. I posted a message a few days ago in the Strategy forum titled "Hand Analysis Please--Need a Tiebreaker" with the EXACT same scenario. I pasted it below for your review. In this very same tournament, I was berated by the player next to me for not calling two all-in bets early in the tournament with suited A10. I made the mistake of telling him what I had after I mucked, and he went off on me. I agree with you--for some reason A10 in NLHE has suddenly jumped into the Tier I hand category with AA, AK and KK. I don't get it. - Bart - ============= This past weekend I played in a live NLHE tournament with a friend of mine. I was knocked out a bit earlier than he was, so I got to see the hand that knocked him out. 24 hours later he’s still kicking himself for the way he played it—while I, on the other hand, think he did the right thing. I’m looking for an outside opinion on this. Here’s the scenario: NLHE tournament, blinds are 200/400 (quickly rising to 400/800). My friend is in dead middle position at an 11 player table. He’s either shortest stack or second shortest stack at the table with about 2500 in chips. Everyone in early folds, and the guy to his right makes a bet of 800. My friend looks at his cards, thinks about it for a minute, then goes all in for 2500. The table goes Fold, Fold, Fold to the guy in the small blind (the chip leader). He thinks about it for a minute, then makes a 2500 call. The middle position raiser gets out of the way, so the action is heads up and the cards come over. My friend turns QQ, and the small blind flips over A10 offsuit. The flop comes rag-rag-rag, then BAM—bullet on the turn. River is a rag, and my friend is out of the tournament. My contention is that he made the right move. His chip count was dwindling, and in retrospect he had all of his money in the middle when he was a 70+% preflop favorite. He made the middle position raiser muck his hand, and if it would have been a less aggressive player in the small blind with A10os he probably would have went away—leaving 600 in blinds and 800 in chips for the taking. My friend is kicking himself for not being more “patient,” which to him mean either waiting for a better opportunity to come along, or not playing the Queens as aggressively Thoughts, anyone? - Bart - ============= | ||
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