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Server Time: 10/11/2008 6:12:31 AM PACIFIC |
 Two pair in omaha 8, philly, 1. Oct 2003 00:35 | ||
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| I've been playing a bit of limit omaha 8 in b&m and online. I've been playing relatively well, but I feel like I'm wasting a lot of many when flopping two pair. Any advice, suggestions or funny anectdotes would be appreciated. Thanks | ||
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| Re: Two pair in omaha 8, grant pittman, 1. Oct 2003 06:30 | ||
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| philly this is a good post and I hope Mark Gregorich sees it to comment on it as well (Mark is easily one of the best omaha8 players in the world and the best I have ever played the game with). I would say to you that if you are not a strong reader of hands and your opponents you would be better off not playing the hand after flopping 2 pair!!! There are some situations where it would be profitable to play the hand but if you don't recognize these situations accurately (and they aren't numerous) you will be in BIG trouble. The reason for this lies in the fact that the pot is often split so if you do win the high portion of the pot it likely won't be large enough to justify your call on the flop let alone the turn. You will almost ALWAYS need to fill up after flopping 2 pair and so you are faced with the very grim pot odds of drawing to 4 cards to win half the pot in a lot of cases. YUK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you couple that with the number of times your opponents flop sets,higher 2 pairs, and straight and flush draws that you are a mathematical dog to after the flop you can see my point that a fold is MOST OFTEN in order here. Now Mark is A LOT better at recognizing these situations than I am but I think he would also support my advice here. Just a thought. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Two pair in omaha 8, Mark Gregorich, 1. Oct 2003 14:01 | ||
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| Yes, Grant, I do agree with your points here, but I doubt I'm any better at recognizing good spots to play two pair than you are. Two pair is generally an unprofitable hand in omaha 8/b because people have so much trouble releasing it. Without going into too much detail, I'll try to present a couple tips which may help turn two pair into a profitable hand (by recognizing when its playable and when its not). A. You can pretty much always pitch it away when the flop has three low cards, unless you have other possibilities (for example: flop of 258 and you have A28Q or A58Q, dump it; flop of 258 and you have A248, now you have a decent low and can scoop with a 3, and possibly scoop or 3/4 the pot with an 8 or 2). Also think about the number of players in the pot here. Headsup, if your hand is from the first example I gave, you are still in decent shape - the probable best high hand with a 1 card ace redraw for low. Its hardly a monster, but I generally continue in this situation (the key being your single opponent may not have a low made, so you may scoop; whereas with several opponents, you are only playing for half with this board - and the pot may get jammed, costing you several bets to try and fill up). B. My favorite two pair to play in omaha 8/b is kings up (especially when I have an ace in my hand). Kings up are unlikely to lose to a bigger two pair, although you still have to deal with a minefield of other perils. Also, there is less likely for there to be a low when you flop a high two pair, so your chance of scooping is greater. When my hand is something like A3KT and the flop comes KT4, for example, I play the hand strongly (because I have the best hand currently in all likelihood, plus I have the backdoor low to fall back on; note if I play aggressively I might get an A2 to fold with this flop, helping my backdoor draw). This is one of the better spots for two pair - flopping the top 2 with a king, with a backdoor low draw and only 1 low card on the flop. If you had A28K and the flop was K85, you have flopped a big hand and should play it aggressively. C. The flip side of B above, I recommend folding T's up or J's up most of the time, as you not only will get outdrawn by straights and flushes, but can lose if an A,K, or Q comes to a larger two pair. Treat these hands as drawing hands - you have 4 outs to fill up, and if you aren't getting the right price from the pot (and you generally won't be if a low draw is present on the flop), you should generally fold. Of course, your other two cards are a big factor here - if they provide you with some extra outs, either in the form of low, straight, or flush draws, then the value of your hand as a total package will increase. Philly, I hope this helps a bit - I can write more later (have to go pick my daughter up from preschool) Mark | ||
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