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Server Time: 8/28/2008 5:24:19 AM PACIFIC |
 1st Post, Tom Mc Cabe, 30. Sep 2003 10:18 | ||
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| I post regularly on 2+2 but this is my first post here. We had a very good discussion on smooth calling pre-flop with high pairs that I'm going to pose here. I don't believe (most posters disagreed with me) that raising pre-flop with high pairs even A-A is automatically the best play every time. What is your view? PS Wasn't sure if this belonged here as a view or in strategy, sorry if I was wrong. In future posts I may relate my animals into it.....it's all good. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Roy Cooke, 30. Sep 2003 11:41 | ||
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| Hi Tom Welcome to UPF...I hope you have many happy postings here :-) I often limp with AA when I am in a tight game and think my hand is unlikely to get action. I do find this play to be profitable. I think making the play with KK is MUCH weaker and with QQ it is NOT a good play as the propensity for overcards to kill your hand is too great. If you are going to make this play the situation has to be right. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 30. Sep 2003 10:18 Tom Mc Cabe wrote: > I post regularly on 2+2 but this is my first post here. We had a very good > discussion on smooth calling pre-flop with high pairs that I'm going to pose > here. > > I don't believe (most posters disagreed with me) that raising pre-flop with > high pairs even A-A is automatically the best play every time. What is your > view? > > PS Wasn't sure if this belonged here as a view or in strategy, sorry if I was > wrong. In future posts I may relate my animals into it.....it's all good. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Tom Mc Cabe, 30. Sep 2003 12:57 | ||
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| Mr. Cooke, I like calling/checking in the blinds when 4 or more are already in. I figure a raise won't drive anyone out, if the flop/turn is terrible it is easier to release when obviously beaten, and the deception may earn additional bets when the stakes double. It also seems like after taking down a hand like this future hands that I limp receive more respect. Do you believe I am losing money with this strategy? | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Barry T, 2. Oct 2003 00:16 | ||
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| Hi, Tom: welcome to UPF. I hope you enjoy it here. With Aces, it is almost always correct to raise out of the blinds. Even though you can come up with strategic considerations, I can too, and the simle fact is that AA is SO much better than any other hnad that you just want to make the pot big, as you will win way more than your "fair share" With KK and QQ, the strategic considerations enter into it more fully. Still, a lot depends on whether there is a frequent aggressor,and where he might be. I rasie much more frequently out of the SMALL blind with these hands as it does give me chance to kill the big blind (typically), which has a lot of value. In the big blind, that chance is gone. In reality, you have asked a very complex question, as it really depends which big pair you hold, which position you are in, and what the character of the game is. I hope this helps some. We can still wait to see what Mr. Cooke says. barryT | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Palinya, 30. Sep 2003 12:39 | ||
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| In a loose game, I would definitely raise a high pair to try and knock people out. In a tighter game I would sometimes limp in with AA if I was in late position and there are already several folders. You have to make a judgement call based on table texture and position on whether or not you want to try and knock people out early or whether you want to try and maximize the pot later. With a loose table it can be dangerous to slowplay this since you never know what kind of crap they might be holding. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Easy E, 30. Sep 2003 12:51 | ||
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| ANYTHING done automatically and all of the time is wrong. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Tom Mc Cabe, 30. Sep 2003 13:02 | ||
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| on 30. Sep 2003 12:51 Easy E wrote: > ANYTHING done automatically and all of the time is wrong. I agree 100%. Also Palinya mentioned raising with a loose table to knock people out is important. I agree with that too but would you still raise at this loose table from the BB when there is no hope of knocking people out? | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Jav, 30. Sep 2003 13:17 | ||
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| You also get an advantage for post-flop play with a pre-flop raise. Your bet, or possibly checkraise on the flop will tend to drive more people out than it would have if you didn't raise pre-flop (even if you pre-flop raise doesn't drive anyone out). But it will depend on the other players and their tendencies, as well as how they view you. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Palinya, 30. Sep 2003 13:20 | ||
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| it really depends I've been at loose tables where the cards came up right for me a few times early after raising pre-flop and someone took me to the river and everyone saw a monster hand. Then people can start to get intimidated and when you raise early they notice. If you raise from the blinds, people still have to call it and if they are afraid of you, you might be able to knock them out even in that position. If it is really working well for you and you feel you have a loose table intimidated you can try raising raising with lesser hands with good position too and see just how much you can push the table around. Just don't over-do it or someone is going to call you eventually :) Position definitely helps you make your decision though. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, modestmouse, 30. Sep 2003 13:56 | ||
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| when i first started playing, i would get frustrated with AA at loose 3-6 games. i only expect it to win 35% when there're 9 callers, but what i noticed is that in 3-6 casinos, the "loose" im used to is 9 callers with a raise, 9 callers without. but i couldnt figure out which was better, to lose money by raising (to get as much dead money in there and hope for a monster flop/turn) and getting outdrawn (i ill release if feel beat on flop, usually turn) or not raising and hoping for the same, but releasing with having to pay 3-5 bets. yes the "loose" games i speak of its capped at pre and flop, so AA really has a tough time. so much action no fold. so in loose games i usually dont have to raise, someone else does, and i can get a slight edge by not advertising my hand by 4-5 betting it and let someone be aggressive, then when i hit my hand i can max out the bets. thats right, ina loose 3-6 game i almost look at my AA as a drawing hand. makes it easier to release. roy's already harped on this, but people go too far with hands like that and kknow theyre beat. tighter higher limit games, its easier, much easier. at least you can put people on hands and they fold sometimes. i get headsup a lot on flop with AA KK and win a lot more (% wise, obviously smaller pots) with them in tighter games at higher limits, and it feels gooooood compared to those loose games that have so much +-ev it hurts on 30. Sep 2003 13:02 Tom Mc Cabe wrote: > on 30. Sep 2003 12:51 Easy E wrote: > > ANYTHING done automatically and all of the time is wrong. > > I agree 100%. Also Palinya mentioned raising with a loose table to knock people out is > important. I agree with that too but would you still raise at this loose table from the > BB when there is no hope of knocking people out? | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, Easy E, 1. Oct 2003 07:00 | ||
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| "Palinya mentioned raising with a loose table to knock people out is important. I agree with that too but would you still raise at this loose table from the BB when there is no hope of knocking people out? " Depends on the hand, and I'm not always looking to knock people out. AA,KK, AK suited, I'm usually reraising and I'll take all the callers. QQ-JJ- probably raising, looking to get out if overcards flop and a lot of action results (unless the flop is uncoordinated and a turn set or other strong hand would be worth the risk). AKoff, I'd only call. Smaller pairs, probably call. A-big connectors, suited or otherwise... not sure. It would depend more on how badly a number of people played post-flop, in determining most of my raises. | ||
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| Re: 1st Post, LJH, 1. Oct 2003 13:25 | ||
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| TOM. IT ALL DEPENDS, BUT IN MOST CASES SMOOTH CALLIING WITH BIG PAIRS IS A BIG LOSER. LJH | ||
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