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Server Time: 11/20/2009 9:58:31 PM PACIFIC |
 Do the poker gods not like me?, iceman5, 29. Sep 2003 14:16 | ||
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| I went all in before the flop with KK and a guy called me with 72 suited and caught a flush busting me out of a SNG. I started another and this happened. Please tell me that I played this correctly. This is a $10 SNG with 4 players left. I am utrecht. PokerStars Game #131513941: Tournament #381603, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2003/09/29 - 13:57:46 (EST) Table '381603 1' Seat #2 is the button Seat 1: gonzico (3610 in chips) Seat 2: SheddHunter (1040 in chips) Seat 4: utrecht (2480 in chips) Seat 7: durden (4945 in chips) Seat 8: reca (1425 in chips) utrecht: posts small blind 75 durden: posts big blind 150 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to utrecht [8h 5h] utrecht said, "yep" reca: folds SheddHunter said, "my bad for the miss info" gonzico: calls 150 SheddHunter: calls 150 utrecht said, "no prob" utrecht: calls 75 durden: checks *** FLOP *** [5c 8s Ac] utrecht: bets 450 durden: folds gonzico: calls 450 SheddHunter: raises 440 to 890 and is all-in utrecht: calls 440 gonzico: calls 440 *** TURN *** [5c 8s Ac] [Jc] SheddHunter said, "i know you have better hands but" SheddHunter said, "ss" utrecht: bets 1440 and is all-in gonzico: calls 1440 SheddHunter said, "i hope no flush" *** RIVER *** [5c 8s Ac Jc] [Js] *** SHOW DOWN *** utrecht: shows [8h 5h] (two pair, Jacks and Eights) gonzico: shows [Ad Tc] (two pair, Aces and Jacks) SheddHunter said, "gg" gonzico collected 2880 from side pot SheddHunter: shows [6h 7h] (a pair of Jacks) gonzico collected 3270 from main pot utrecht [observer] said, "damn" *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 6150 Main pot 3270. Side pot 2880. | Rake 0 Board [5c 8s Ac Jc Js] Seat 1: gonzico showed [Ad Tc] and won (6150) with two pair, Aces and Jacks Seat 2: SheddHunter (button) showed [6h 7h] and lost with a pair of Jacks Seat 4: utrecht (small blind) showed [8h 5h] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Eights Seat 7: durden (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 8: reca folded before Flop (didn't bet) | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, palman, 29. Sep 2003 14:30 | ||
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| Well the guy with the A10 has 5 outs on the turn to improve, and then 8 outs on the river to improve.... And the guy with the straight draw had 8 outs on both to improve, thus you aren't as big of a favorite as you might think. Actually one of those two will improve more than half the time, and you have 4 outs to the nuts on the turn and river there. that would be why you just much those 85's for the faint chance that 2 pair flops or you get a flush draw in . | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, Palinya, 29. Sep 2003 14:31 | ||
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| When Shredder went all-in I would have put him on top 2 pair AA and 88 or AA and 55 or a trip of AAA... maybe even 555 or 888 although a lot less likely So in this case I would have folded right there. No point going all in ever with bottom 2 pair. | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, Palinya, 29. Sep 2003 14:33 | ||
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| calling someones all in with 72s without seeing a flop is crazy He got lucky | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, gary ford, 29. Sep 2003 14:42 | ||
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| on 29. Sep 2003 14:33 Palinya wrote: > calling someones all in with 72s without seeing a flop is crazy > > He got lucky calling in the small blind with 85s is not too swift either. There were 4 players you were 2nd in chips why get involved? | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, jaustin, 29. Sep 2003 14:45 | ||
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| First, I wouldn't have played 85s (even in the SB), either raise if you think the limper is trying to see a cheap flop or muck. Your bet was clearly fine, but I would fold to the flop all-in raise as well with someone already calling your bet. Most likely your up against at least an ace (possibly a better two pair) and a monster draw, in which case your odds of winning the pot are about 1/3 (just estimating) With only four players left it's better to stay alive and wait for another opportunity. Finally, there is no reason to bet the turn as well. You've already built a big pot and your bet can't win it. I'd check it down, so if you lose you don't bust out. Keeping your last 1300 chips is alot more valuable than winning his 1300. | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, Jav, 29. Sep 2003 14:50 | ||
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| I think with only four players left, there's not really a good reason to get involved with that hand in the first place. 8,5s isn't going to hit the flop often enough to make it a good call. Add to that the opportunity to let other players play a hand (which could always lead to someone being busted out), and I think you should have folded that hand pre-flop. Even when that hand hits hard (flush, two pair, three of a kind, or straight), most of those hands are still never going to be the nuts. You're always going to be vulnerable to two bigger pairs, or a better kicker, better flush, etc. But when you do play it, you got the flop you wanted. Now you should mostly be afraid of the flush draw, so I like your flop bet. You made a pot-sized bet that should reduce anyones odds for drawing. But you get called by one player, and raised all-in by another. You should be scared at this point. The caller is saying that they have something, and the all-in bet is at least representing being able to beat any pair. I don't think you want to play this hand with both people. If another club comes or the board pairs you are in real trouble. So in my opinion you either need to lay the hand down, or re-raise to try to limit the hand to just one opponent. But you and the other player both call. Now a real scare card comes with the jack of clubs. If either of your opponents was on a flush draw you're in trouble now. I think you really have to slow down. Betting all-in is the last thing I would want to do at this point. There are two face cards, making a flush, or two higher pair likely. And there's always a chance of someone having a set as well. Anyway I think you ran into some bad luck, but hands like that are exactly why I don't like to play 8,5s even for half a bet. | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, iceman5, 29. Sep 2003 15:09 | ||
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| You all make good points and I agree with most of them. When the first guy went all in I figured I had him beat (he wasnt very good) and I think I actually shoulve gone all in right then, dissuading the third guy from calling also. I hate playing hands like that from the SB also and Im not sure why I did, but when I saw that flop I got tunnel vision. I still had the best hand though and I still belive it was a mistake for the 3rd guy to call. | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, Andrew Wells, 29. Sep 2003 20:40 | ||
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| Even though you shouldn't have played it considering your chip position, you have to like that flop. I think you have no choice but to shove all-in immediately to give whatever possible protection you can to a fragile hand like this. | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, modestmouse, 29. Sep 2003 21:00 | ||
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| took the words outta me mouth jay. good analysis on 29. Sep 2003 14:50 Jav wrote: > I think with only four players left, there's not really a good reason to get involved > with that hand in the first place. 8,5s isn't going to hit the flop often enough to > make it a good call. Add to that the opportunity to let other players play a hand > (which could always lead to someone being busted out), and I think you should have > folded that hand pre-flop. Even when that hand hits hard (flush, two pair, three of > a kind, or straight), most of those hands are still never going to be the nuts. > You're always going to be vulnerable to two bigger pairs, or a better kicker, better > flush, etc. > > But when you do play it, you got the flop you wanted. Now you should mostly be > afraid of the flush draw, so I like your flop bet. You made a pot-sized bet that > should reduce anyones odds for drawing. But you get called by one player, and raised > all-in by another. You should be scared at this point. The caller is saying that > they have something, and the all-in bet is at least representing being able to beat > any pair. I don't think you want to play this hand with both people. If another > club comes or the board pairs you are in real trouble. So in my opinion you either > need to lay the hand down, or re-raise to try to limit the hand to just one > opponent. > > But you and the other player both call. Now a real scare card comes with the jack > of clubs. If either of your opponents was on a flush draw you're in trouble now. I > think you really have to slow down. Betting all-in is the last thing I would want to > do at this point. There are two face cards, making a flush, or two higher pair > likely. And there's always a chance of someone having a set as well. > > Anyway I think you ran into some bad luck, but hands like that are exactly why I > don't like to play 8,5s even for half a bet. > > | ||
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| Re: Do the poker gods not like me?, kennycatkiller, 30. Sep 2003 04:55 | ||
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| You said that there were 4 players left, but you listed 5 and showed their chip count. Anyway, if 3 people get paid, why get involved with 8 5? Let the others go to war and eliminate 2 players so that you are in the money. | ||
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