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Server Time: 12/2/2008 7:43:51 AM PACIFIC |
 limping hands 7 stud, timmer, 28. Sep 2003 13:16 | ||
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| A recently met with Mason Malmuth over lunch and posed this question. I really didn't get the answer I wanted but he did lend some incite in to what hands NOT to play in this spot. BarryT was there and I felt he wanted to interject something but didn't get the chance. As I respect what Mr. T has to say and am always interested in his input ( and yours) I will pose a similar question here on this forum When playing in a loosely structured 7 stud high game (where the ante and bring in is slightly more than two big bets ) against loose passive opponents who seldom raise, where third streets are 5 or 6 way, fifth streets are usually 4 way and showdowns are usually 3 way and pots are rarely won with out a show down. What kind of hands can you limp with, provided most players also limp, that you would fold in a more aggressive or more tightly structured game. To clarify. There is often 3 or 3.5 BIG bets in the pot before the wagering starts on 4th street on those hands where there is no completed bet on 3rd street.. | ||
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| Re: limping hands 7 stud, Mark, 28. Sep 2003 17:51 | ||
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| Good question timmer, I used to play alot of low limit 7 stud but haven't for the last 6 months. Medium and lower pairs with good kickers are obvious. Try to catch perfect on 4th or get out. Maybe even get a free card on 4th. Unsuited small gappers such as 9JQo or 89J, and lower 3 flushes become playable. I don't like to loosen up too much because against this opposition you will have to show down a good hand in order to win. This means your winning hands will have to be stronger than average. If the players stay passive on 4th street alot, with little betting and no raising, I would loosen my play even further, playing almost any pair and any 3 flush. Smaller unsuited connectors would also become playable eg 678. Mark | ||
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| Re: limping hands 7 stud, Barry T, 29. Sep 2003 17:08 | ||
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| Hi. I sort of agree, mostly. I will not play small pair good kicker unless the good kicker can beat the board. I will play two-suited one gappers, but not rainbow ones (unless I have at least one card that can beat the board). Solid three-straights are playable as well, if the completion cards are entirely live (with 678, you want to see no more than one 5,4,9 or 10. I did not care for the idea of two suited big cards. I would never play that multi-way. Yes, I thought of interjecting, but this was Mason's day,and the people came to hear him. After all, I can talk at all the other meetings. And thanks for the compliment, timmer. BarryT | ||
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| Re: limping hands 7 stud, timmer, 30. Sep 2003 08:24 | ||
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| well guys due to the multi natured development of these pots I still kind of shy away from small pairs with out an live over card (A or K)because often a 5 card pat hand is shown at the end. I see where you are comming from here and I agree. But that sucker needs to be live. Often opponents have a needed card "holed" up. So many people are going to the river you need a moderatly good hand to win most of these. And when you do hit you go on to lose with small trips anyway. The nice thing one Full House can often pay for the next 50 - 100 antes. I want to add somtimes these games do check around on fourth and are seldom raised or reraised on fourth. In light of this, what about 3 straight double inside rainbows containing an A and/or K ? with two or three (of course live) overcards. I realize these are on the far end of the spectrum But thats what Im exploring. I would omit KJ9 in almost every case Unless KJ were over cards,buried alive in an untouched suit , and QT were live as well. these are qualities I love to see in my AKT's and AQT's as well. AJT's and KQ9's Im not so crazy about I lean towards these more if the have a suited A or connector but the suits need to be untouched. what do you guys think? | ||
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| Re: limping hands 7 stud, Mark, 30. Sep 2003 09:00 | ||
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| on 30. Sep 2003 08:24 timmer wrote: > well guys due to the multi natured development of these pots I still kind of shy away from > small pairs with out an live over card (A or K)because often a 5 card pat hand is shown at the > end. If i can see 5th street for free and have good reads on my opponents, i may play medium-small pairs 77,88,99, with a J or Q kicker (if all my outs are live and J/Q is overcard to board) > I see where you are comming from here and I agree. But that sucker needs to be live. Often > opponents have a needed card "holed" up. So many people are going to the river you need a > moderatly good hand to win most of these. And when you do hit you go on to lose with small > trips anyway. The nice thing one Full House can often pay for the next 50 - 100 antes. > I want to add somtimes these games do check around on fourth and are seldom raised or > reraised on fourth. If i can see 5th street for one small bet on 3rd, i will play weak hands(like above) ,that are very live. I am looking to catch a set or perfect-perfect, or something else very strong. > In light of this, what about 3 straight double inside rainbows containing an A and/or K ? AQT may be playable if 1. A,Q,K and J are live 2.two flush 3. your in lp 4. probably see 5th for free 5. you have good reads/reliable tells on opposition > with two or three (of course live) overcards. I realize these are on the far end of the > spectrum But thats what Im exploring. > > I would omit KJ9 in almost every case Unless KJ were over cards,buried alive in an untouched > suit , and QT were live as well. these are qualities I love to see in my AKT's and AQT's as > well. AJT's and KQ9's Im not so crazy about I lean towards these more if the have a suited A > or connector but the suits need to be untouched. > > what do you guys think? I like your analysis of these last cards. The 2 flush and live overcards factors are qualities i like to see in these games. If your playing in a game where everyone is chasing you can do a little chasing yourself (when the other factors are right - position, reads, passiveness, etc) Mark | ||
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| Re: limping hands 7 stud add on, timmer, 30. Sep 2003 09:19 | ||
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| well guys due to the multi natured development of these pots I still kind of shy away from small pairs even with a live over card (A or K)because often a 5 card pat hand is shown at the end. Although A's and K's up will win its share. I do often limp with them from last or late position when an apparent leader is on my left or all passive players are on my left. I see where you are comming from here and I agree. But that sucker needs to be live. Often opponents have a needed card "holed" up. So many people are going to the river you need a moderatly good hand to win most of these. And when you do hit you go on to sometimes lose with small trips anyway. The nice thing one Full House can often pay for the next 50 - 100 antes. I want to add somtimes these games do check around on fourth and are seldom raised or reraised on fourth. In light of this, what about 3 straight double inside rainbows containing an A and/or K ? with two or three (of course live) overcards. I realize these are on the far end of the spectrum But thats what Im exploring. I would omit KJ9 in almost every case Unless KJ were over cards,buried alive in an untouched suit , and QT were live as well. these are qualities I love to see in my AKT's and AQT's as well. AJT's and KQ9's Im not so crazy about I lean towards these more if the have a suited A or connector but the suits need to be untouched. as you can imagine when these kind of hands improve twice they can often take the pot. (trips str8's top two pairs) three times ( A &/or K high flushes and full houses) they can win a big pot. I want to hit then hard ( a suited gap card or high pair card) and fast ( on fourth) a few dead cards or even an off card on fourth and I muck them quickly. A scare card or good semi bluffing card seldom will do it for you here. what do you guys think? | ||
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