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Server Time: 11/20/2009 7:43:59 PM PACIFIC |
 Kill Hand Analysis...On the Draw, mkpoker, 26. Sep 2003 19:11 | ||
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| I'd appreciate your thoughts on this hand...lately it seems all the feedback I've received is "you played that wrong...but got real lucky!" This may be the case here, too. We're in a 3/6 kill hand (limits of 6/12) on UB; only 7 players. The table is the classic LLHE loose. However, I think the player who posted the kill blind (in cutoff position) was a good tight player, maybe the best at the table. In the SB, I get KhTd. Two calls. Kill blind checks. I call. BB calls. Flop comes Qh4hAh, giving me the nut flush draw plus a gutshot straight draw. I check and it's checked to the KB (cutoff), who bets. Button folds. Calling is probably the right play (indeed betting was probably the right play) in order to get money into the pot with my "superdraw", but I raise, thinking that all the early checkers will be hard pressed to call two double-big bets cold...unless they've already made the flush. Maybe I can take the pot right here...at least I'll know where I stand. I raise. All fold except the KB, who calls. Turn is As, pairing Aces on the board. I bet right out, remembering that KB only checked pre-flop. With a good ace, he'd probably have raised. He folds. So...was my flop raise and turn bet good strategic semi-bluffs...or crazy reckless plays that lucked out? | ||
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| Re: Kill Hand Analysis...On the Draw, 4 POKER, 26. Sep 2003 21:23 | ||
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| Hey mk, With a 3-flush already present on the flop, I probably would have done one or two things. Lead out on the flop, or check-raise it like you did when the last person to act came out betting after everyone had checked to him, and try to take the pot right there. That could have been a steal attempt by him, and even if he holds top pair or even better than that.....it's going to be hard for him to raise you back with out a really high flush. (If it was a 2 flush on the flop and you held the nut flush draw, I would want more callers in there, but in this case, if you hit the flush on the turn, you're probably not going to get called unless someone else has a flush that's good enough to pay off with. So that's another reason why I'd prefer to try and take the pot right there like you attempted to do, and then did on the turn). However, when he did call your raise, even if I hit nothing on the turn, I would have led at it again; you still have outs to impove to,and another bet may convince him more into folding. But, if I made the nut flush on the turn, I would check it to him in planning on check-raising it again because if you did hit the flush and you came out betting, he's more than likely going to fold unless he holds the second nut flush. This way you may be able to extract at least one big bet out of him in allowing him to think that the turn card hurt you and were planning on folding if he bet it! I would do the same thing on the turn had I just checked and called on the flop against only one other player in the hand with me now. If the turns a blank, I lead at it, and if it's the nuts....then I check-raise. Makes them think a little bit sometimes when you lead out after just checking and calling on the flop. (Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but you still had outs). I think your read was correct on the cutoff player and it's hard for the other two to call 2 cold bets with that flop, imo. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Kill Hand Analysis...On the Draw, Barry T, 27. Sep 2003 09:01 | ||
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| Hi. You played very well. The cutoff is a blind who made a button bet. He might have a hand of some sort (Ace-rag, or Qx or soemthing), or he might have what he thinks is a draw (Jh-x or even JhTo). If he had something significant, he might have raised pre-flop. Sure I see he called the check-raise, but he does not even need to have you beat to do that. Your flop raise protects the best hand if you have one, protects your king if it is an out, gives you an excellent chance to win now. On the turn, of course you need to bet. Your lone opponent may still go away (since you posted the hand, it is likely he did not). Or you may still have te best hand. And you still have at least 12 outs and posibly 15 or 18 if you do not. A fine time to be aggressive. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Kill Hand Analysis...On the Draw, Mark Gregorich, 28. Sep 2003 13:09 | ||
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| Well played. Its always nice when you can play a draw in a manner that allows you to win the pot without being forced to hit your hand. I also agree with 4P that checkraising the turn if a heart comes is a good play - it may be your only shot to win another bet with the hand. Mark | ||
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| Re: Kill Hand Analysis...On the Draw, Andrew Wells, 28. Sep 2003 18:23 | ||
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| Your play after the flop is fine, I have nothing to add to the previous posts. I wouldn't have called $5 before the flop from the $1 small blind with KTo though. This is equivalent to calling in early position when you're in a tight/passive game. KTo is a very difficult hand to play well when you are out of position against three or four opponents. You're going to be playing against two hands that entered the pot voluntarily, plus one or even two blind hands. The big blind may even get nasty and raise, so you are not necessarily completing the preflop action with your overcall. Maybe I'm tight-ass, but the blind structure is skewed on a kill pot which hurts the small blind position the most. Your preflop "discount" is for all practical purposes gone when there is a kill, and that can be a significant reason not to get involved with a marginal hand. | ||
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