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Server Time: 3/17/2010 10:42:31 PM PACIFIC |
 Advice on this and similar hands, Brian462, 24. Sep 2003 17:00 | ||
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| I'm in an average low limit paradise game and get dealt 6d8d from the big blind. 2 calls all ahead of me, SB folds. Flop comes KdK6 and I'm under the gun. No raises preflop at least reduces the chance of a king being out there(if only slightly) so I figure there is a good chance I have the best hand at the moment. I check since the player on the end last likes to bluff especially at these types of flops. Instead the player immediatly following me bets(who is by no means a tight or passive player) and the button calls. Originally I was hoping to put 2 bets to the middle player and get rid of him and although that isn't likely to happen now I raise hoping to gain a little face. They both call. Since I wasn't reraised from the original better I am slightly more convinced that he does not have it. It is definitely possible that either of them would slowplay a king though, especially with me betting for them, so I am not ruling it out. The turn comes 5h. Good card for me overall but I check with the intention of calling, also figuring that my previous check raise will deter them from making any bluffs at me. They both check as well. Now I am sure that I have best hand but am worried the river will bring a 7 or higher which is very likely. River is a 3 which basically convinces me that I have the goods though I suppose a straight is possible. I bet and they both call and I win. My question is mainly about my play at the turn. I think I should have bet out again but considering my lack of kicker and the ease with which I could be drawn out I was hoping to get through cheaply. I might've already been beat and if either one of my opponents gets over courageous and raises me on a bluff I would have had to fold. On the positive side I might have folded off someone with higher cards than six which would really help me out, as well as build the pot a little. I'd be interested to hear anyones thoughts on this hand. It worked out okay for me in the end(I lost 2 bets by not betting the turn but at least the river didn't show an overcard and I picked up the last 2 there) but I think I could have played it better. Thanks in advance Brian | ||
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| Re: Advice on this and similar hands, Mark Gregorich, 24. Sep 2003 17:24 | ||
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| Nice game when they both call you on the end and can't beat a six. I would have bet the turn with your hand. While you are unsure of whether it is the best hand at the moment, one thing is certain - if you are holding the best hand, it is extremely vulnerable. By checking, you give each of your opponents a free draw, when they may well have folded any hand with 2 overcards to the 6 if you had bet. If you get raised on the turn, you can throw the hand away (sure they may be raise-bluffing you here, but after your checkraise of 2 players on the flop and subsequent turn bet - showing a lot of strength-, this would be a high risk maneuver which I doubt many players will attempt). What are you trying to accomplish by checking on the turn? Are you checking with the intention of calling? Or will you give them credit for a better hand should they bet the turn? To me, and to you as well, it seemed far too likely that you were holding the best hand. So, due to the vulnerable nature of your hand, a bet is definitely in order. I think it would be a better play to check if you held AA here, than the 68 you had. The reason: your hand is unlikely to be outdrawn if its the best hand, and you may get added action on the river if your opponents pair up on the end, bets you couldn't have won if you had bet the turn (thus, the cards that beat you when you have the pair of sixes can make you extra money when you have AA). There are several things to consider (which I'm not going into here) when deciding whether to bet the turn, and how vulnerable your hand is to free cards belongs near the top of the list. Good luck, Mark | ||
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| Re: Advice on this and similar hands, Brian462, 24. Sep 2003 17:35 | ||
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| Thanks you basically confirmed my own thoughts. Now that I think about it some more I was playing a little scared after a few semi-bad beats. After playing the flop strong like that It was just stupid of me not to follow it up. | ||
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| Re: Advice on this and similar hands, shorn, 25. Sep 2003 05:22 | ||
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| Good points Mark. I would add these few: I think you definitely need to bet the turn if you plan on check calling because it gives them a chance to fold and your hand isn't strong enough to slow play. Check/calling is generally bad strategy in Hold'em, especially with a hand that has little chance to improve. Also, betting the turn represents a King as you were in the blind and it may get them to fold a better hand than yours. It also gives you the information that you need to play the river effectively. If they call, you should likely check the river. If they raise, you should probably throw your hand away. | ||
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| Re: Advice on this and similar hands, ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Sep 2003 00:30 | ||
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| IT'S ALWAYS SO AMUSING HOW PEOPLE TALK HOLD EM HANDS, AS THOUGH IT WERE THE ONLY GAME AVAILABLE!!! HA HA, NO EMPEROR'S CLOTHES FOR ADAM THE EXPERT. HOLD 'ME WAS INVENTED TO GIVE SUCKERS AN EVEN BREAK. BUT, IT'S HERE, LIKE AN INFESTATION OF LICE, SO WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT. FIRST OF ALL, YOU NEED TO THINK BOTH OFFENSE, AND DEFENSE, DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION. IN THIS CASE, YOU ARE THE BLIND, AND AS SUCH, HAVE NO INVESTMENT. WITH ANYONE HAVING ANY KING, YOU ARE AMOST TOTALLY DEAD, SO . . . . . . . . . WHY RISK IT. CHECK AND FOLD. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT ADAM THE EXPERT IS NOT AGGRESSIVE, JUST IN APPROPRIATE SPOTS. SAVE YOUR MONEY FOR OTHER HANDS, DON'T GET CAUGHT DRAWING DEAD. BY HAVING SUCH A WEAK HAND, YOU MAKE YOUR BET UNCALLABLE, BY A WORSE HAND. YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A KICKER. GET RID OF THIS TRASH. PLAY THIS SITUATION, ONLY AGAINST ONE PLAYER, WHO HAS PREDICITABLE BETTING PATTERNS. | ||
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| Re: Advice on this and similar hands, Snorbolus, 25. Sep 2003 05:26 | ||
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| Genarally speaking, I don't like your bet on the river. This time you got called by two players who couldn't beat your pair of sixes. Perehaps you knew that these guys would call without a hand. Many players, even bad ones, would not call in this spot unless they had you beaten. Make sure that you at least think about which type you are against before betting the river. Personally I would have folded on the flop. Even if your pair of sixes were ahead then (and they might very well not have been), any 7 or 9 and above will only make things worse for you. I don't see how you can bet this hand aggressively on any street - especially not if you are up against players who will call with nothing. I am sure that playing in this type of spot will be a long run money looser for you. Snorbolus on 24. Sep 2003 17:00 Brian462 wrote: > I'm in an average low limit paradise game and get dealt 6d8d from the big blind. > 2 calls all ahead of me, SB folds. > > Flop comes KdK6 and I'm under the gun. No raises preflop at least reduces the > chance of a king being out there(if only slightly) so I figure there is a good > chance I have the best hand at the moment. I check since the player on the end > last likes to bluff especially at these types of flops. Instead the player > immediatly following me bets(who is by no means a tight or passive player) and > the button calls. Originally I was hoping to put 2 bets to the middle player > and get rid of him and although that isn't likely to happen now I raise hoping > to gain a little face. They both call. > > Since I wasn't reraised from the original better I am slightly more convinced > that he does not have it. It is definitely possible that either of them would > slowplay a king though, especially with me betting for them, so I am not ruling > it out. > > The turn comes 5h. Good card for me overall but I check with the intention of > calling, also figuring that my previous check raise will deter them from making > any bluffs at me. They both check as well. Now I am sure that I have best hand > but am worried the river will bring a 7 or higher which is very likely. > > River is a 3 which basically convinces me that I have the goods though I > suppose a straight is possible. I bet and they both call and I win. > > My question is mainly about my play at the turn. I think I should have bet out > again but considering my lack of kicker and the ease with which I could be drawn > out I was hoping to get through cheaply. I might've already been beat and if > either one of my opponents gets over courageous and raises me on a bluff I would > have had to fold. On the positive side I might have folded off someone with > higher cards than six which would really help me out, as well as build the pot a > little. > > I'd be interested to hear anyones thoughts on this hand. It worked out okay > for me in the end(I lost 2 bets by not betting the turn but at least the river > didn't show an overcard and I picked up the last 2 there) but I think I could > have played it better. > > Thanks in advance > Brian | ||
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