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Server Time: 12/2/2008 8:14:05 AM PACIFIC |
 Tells, nickdel, 24. Sep 2003 09:44 | ||
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| I just read Mike Caro's book of tells, and watched all the clips on his website. I understand it all, but am confused on one point. My question is: with 9 other people at the table, how can I notice everything? For example, most of the tells are subtle and quick. If I'm up against two or three opponents on the river, how can I watch (7-stud) everyone looking at their hole card if they all look at the same time? Also, if anyone has some advice, there are 60 tells in that book! How should I approach the table with my head filled with tapping fingers and chip-glancers? I have not used tells before, and I guess I don't know where to start. I'd really appreciate any help anyone could give. | ||
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| Re: Tells, Snorbolus, 24. Sep 2003 11:29 | ||
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| Nickdel, >...with 9 other people at the table, how can I notice everything?... You can't; and it gets worse. Even the tells that you do spot will not be 100% accurate. Nevertheless, I beleive that it is still worth looking for tells. First, and most important, it means that you are thinking about the other players and what they might be holding, not just about your own cards. Second, occasionally you will see something that gives you a clue about one of your opponent's cards. When you do you can use this information to help you decide how you want to play the hand. Every poker player makes frequent mistakes about what their opponents have. That is the nature of the game (incomplete information), anything that helps you to guess right more often will help your game. Snorbolus on 24. Sep 2003 09:44 nickdel wrote: > I just read Mike Caro's book of tells, and watched all the clips on his website. > I understand it all, but am confused on one point. My question is: with 9 > other people at the table, how can I notice everything? For example, most of > the tells are subtle and quick. If I'm up against two or three opponents on the > river, how can I watch (7-stud) everyone looking at their hole card if they all > look at the same time? > > Also, if anyone has some advice, there are 60 tells in that book! How should I > approach the table with my head filled with tapping fingers and chip-glancers? > I have not used tells before, and I guess I don't know where to start. > > I'd really appreciate any help anyone could give. | ||
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| Re: Tells, MrTeLLnj, 24. Sep 2003 12:11 | ||
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| ..I play regularly with different friends and at Atantic city 2-4 times a month. At low limit tables. Most important is to always remmember your 2 cards...always..always,,it will help you cocentrate better,,,,,and never look at them after ,,,unless you want to fake...When you get your cards....look forward at a blank spot on the table (try not to make any facial expressions) not something that can be staired at...take about 3 to 5 seconds to react every time....this will help you not give away anytells ...just chill thats all.Do the same for when you fold..When each player goes ..check them out as the table move clockwise.....#1 goes...etc etc,,,look at them dont freak them out but just look around. ( also when reading his book look at the % on how much each tell will work on what kinda player.. weak to fair.(from my experience his tells most always are true to fair to bad players.) The best time to check tells out so you can see them befor the real action takes place is when you just enter the table or who ever your playing ....In a casino you can wait till the button goes all the way around ....kinda sit back and study the game.There will always be about 3 people you can pick things up on cuzz they are always in the pot!..lets take these 3 people. What i realy watch for is on the flop (( also befor flop)....eyes give away real tells....the one that works for me is when they look at there cards and then touch there chips , not grab them but kinda run there hand over it . Its like a reflex that they cant wait to bet....and about 90% of the time they will kinda look behind there cards and near there chips..but real quick. Most of the time they have floped something. THAT ONE WORKS..or they look up realy realy fast .....i mean bammmm they start to look around..... The next best one is when they raise and put there hand by there head , mouth or sit with there elbows on the table with there hand by there chin.....i swear to you ,call this person.....it has worked for me.. OK....always remember your cards, watch for eyes , one person at a time .every time i play i look for these tells and they do work.....most of what i said counts for afte the flop .......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! most players well not so good ones in low limit games at a showdown will not muck there cards if they loose...They just throw them down all 3 or 7 people look at their cards ,,,,,SEE IF THEY EVEN HAD ANYTHING ON THE FLOP OR 4th or 5th.....By doing this can tell you alot on how they bet........witch can help you chec raise.!!!!!!!!!!! ok,,hope this helps...sory about the spelling........hahah matt, B | ||
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| Re: Tells...one more thing, MrTeLLnj, 24. Sep 2003 12:26 | ||
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| each person with have maybe 2 or maybe 3 tells from what youhave read ,,,,just know witch ones they are. if all the finger tappers and chip clickes are Everyone at the table....cancle that branch of tells. Try this ...take the player who is inthe pot on anything and everthing,,,,study him( most often when you are out of the pot. See what tell is pronounced and what is not. Dont try to jam every tell you think you see....you will psych your self out. Then try it for each player...........being that you will be playing for 6 hours with 75% of the same people. | ||
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| Re: Tells, Mark, 24. Sep 2003 12:58 | ||
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| Hi nickdel While Mike's book is very good and finding a few tells can be very profitable, don't expect everyone to be obvious. Don't try to read all 9 opponents in the first 5 minutes (or even a session for that matter). First, start with people who play against regularly. Finding a reliable tell against someone who you play against regulary is much more valuable that reading 5 strangers for a few hours. If there's no regulars present, spend time trying to read the opponents who are playing the most hands. Otherwise just pick two or three players, and study ONE of them during each hand until you pick up a tell, then move on. Some of the most noticeable and regular tells i've found are the quick check when weak, staring at the flop when weak and covering your mouth when bluffing. Alot of newbies will play alot of hands and stare at the flop when it doesn't help them. Sometimes this is combined with a quick check. If you find one of these guys, try to get heads up with him as much as possible, as you will know exactly what he has. The more loose-passive the better. It gets even better when these players will call the flop and turn, but fold the river without a pair. You tend to see those players only on the weekends for a few hours. Take it easy with the tells. Look for them, but don't sacrifice any other part of your game for them. With time and patience, you'll start to see them once in a while. Mark | ||
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| Re: Tells, Frankie Pals, 24. Sep 2003 20:13 | ||
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| I tend to agree with the majority of the information put forth in this thread, however I would like to emphasize one point. It is very important to not get strung out about catching everything at the table, reading everyone's tells. Most of the time, this is simply impossible, and attempting this will only result in frustration and bad plays. At a hold 'em table, you have nine other players to watch, and seven stud is not much better. With that said, it is very beneficial to focus on a few players (no more than 3 or 4) at the table who are involved in the hand more often than not. This is better for a number of reasons, but basically boils down to the fact that you can devote more attention to reading other players, and playing your own game. In addition, there are two basic ways in which to study players, either by being involved in a hand with him/her or by simply studying him/her as you sit out. Both sides have pros and cons. While sitting out, you are able to devote more of your attention to watching those players as opposed to worrying about your own hand. Actually being involved in a hand with the players you are studying, however, yields more results. This is because you can gauge their actions and their moves more accurately when you are acting against them, not to mention the fact that you can test out your theories and make plays, which is the base reason for reading other players in the first place! While reading players can be a worthwhile endeavor, bluffing, tells, and reads don't greatly factor into low limit poker games. This is because the denominations are simply too small, and because a large percentage of the players simply aren't good enough for you to gauge a good reaction. Ever notice a player make the most bizarre moves and stay in with garbage, only to continue raking in pot after pot? Part of it is due to the fact that nobody can get a good read on that player, simply because his/her play is too erratic. Unless you frequent high limit/no limit games, reading other players is a secondary skill that is, in my opinion, overrated (in these low limit games, of course). Instead of trying to make reads, focus on being disciplined with your cards. All too often I have relied solely on the actions of another player, and not on my hole cards. There are valuable lessons to be learned every single time you sit down at a poker table... | ||
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| Re: Tells, Bond18, 24. Sep 2003 22:43 | ||
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| Definately trying to read 6 or 7 other players is unreasonable, which just makes me crack up further when Matt Damon tells everyone what they had in the judges game in rounders. The one i've almost always found to be right is the looking at their chips tell or staring right at me tell, glance at the chips=bet, staring at you after bet=bluff, those are often correct. | ||
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| Re: Tells, gary ford, 26. Sep 2003 10:53 | ||
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| on 24. Sep 2003 22:43 Bond18 wrote: > Definately trying to read 6 or 7 other players is unreasonable, which just makes me crack > up further when Matt Damon tells everyone what they had in the judges game in rounders. > The one i've almost always found to be right is the looking at their chips tell or staring > right at me tell, glance at the chips=bet, staring at you after bet=bluff, those are often > correct. Ah yes, what did we do when we didn't have rounders as a frame of reference. Trying to read tells is difficult, but its an important part of the game. All of the answers given are good and tend to try to simplify what is a difficult task at best. Being older, I don't know if this works for the yoiunger players that are entering poker seriously for the first time, but another method of simplifying this is to try and categorize the person. To a degree this is pointed out in Hellmuths new book where he uses animals to type players. Mouse ,jackal. etc. It is generally accepted that if you want to know what a person is really like, play poker with them. Home games with the same players are easy---Joe is loose, gary is so tight he squeaks and picks his nose when he has a big hand. bob always gets drunk and throws his money away and so forth. If you were telling a story about last nights game thats kind of what you would say when describing the players Now, you're in a casino with 9 strangers who frequently leave and are replaced by other strangers. What to do? Watch for facial tics? Shaky hands? Try to watch 9 people at once? Much easier to classify them as they appear. Begin with their overall appearance. ( don't overlook the fingernails) Then listen to their voices ( players can be typed by where they are from). You certainly would expect a California beach boy to play differently than a dese dem and dose guy from the East coast. Scruffy people play differently than neatly dressed people and so on and so on. You have plenty of time to classify them as people. ( you dont play very many hands, do you? ) AS you classify them as people you will automatically read them as poker players. Trying to get too precise and relying on tells totally will not work well and wil fry your brain. This is a skill that successful car salesman develop to near perfection. Then take advantage of whatever weakness that person has. Overbets, calls too much,timid, all that behavior has its basis in their personalties and view of themselves. Thats the cake, reading tells is the frosting. Understand the boom---Gary Ford | ||
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| Re: Tells (our), Michael C, 26. Sep 2003 12:49 | ||
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| This a very interesting thread. What I have always wondered about is if someone can read me? Tells in reverse. One suggestion someone said is remember your cards and don't look again. (A dead giveaway is there are 3 of a suit on the flop and you need to look to see if your AXo the right suit, then you bet and they fold). If you are bluffing should you stare? Maybe you should think that you have the nuts in your hand, but you know that you don't, and act how you would if you had the nuts. If you have top pair top kicker think what you would do if you had a set instead. You would show confidence. Anyone have any ideas? I would love to have someone watch me and then let me know how I did in a game. I do not know if I have a poker face. Once a dealer said to another player '....it showed on you face....' A look at the wall to check the RF payout is another clue :-) After all we are all eagles right? (Phil's book, Play Poker Like the Pros) I guess controlling reactions takes experience - I called a blind bet in 7stud just to look afterward and saw a set of 10's. (10,10,10,5). Then a 5 hit me. :-) Wonder if I would have given it always if I saw the p 10's on 3rd street? M. | ||
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