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Server Time: 12/2/2008 9:34:26 AM PACIFIC |
 Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, shorn, 24. Sep 2003 06:09 | ||
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| I was watching the re-run of the WSOP last night and was particularly struck about the last hand that was played. Farha held JhTd and Moneymaker held 5d4s. Farha raised a small amount pre-flop which Moneymaker called. Flop comes Js5s4c ginvg Farha top pair and MM middle two. Farha bets out $100k I think (which I agree with) and MM raises another $175k, both smart plays (although you could argue that MM should have raised a larger number with a str8 and flush draw out there). What I can't understand is why in the hell Farha went all-in then with top pair, crappy kicker?? It wasn't like he was in danger of blinding out and needed to make a move. He was one hand away from doubling through to the chip lead. Also, he had seen MM call down more than few all-in's from other players, so it wasn't like MM was a pushover when someone showed that kind of strength. I don't understand the strategy behind this move against this player. Anyone else confused by this or have a good strategic reason to make this play? Steve | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Pedro, 24. Sep 2003 06:27 | ||
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| Farha had trouble folding when he felt he was best throughtout the whole tournament. The fact of the matter is its hard to put moneymaker on 54. But, Farha should of realized he could of been slowplaying a really strong hand which Moneymaker did all tournament. Another thing is Moneymaker had the luck of god the whole tournament lol. There were a lot of hands in which he could of easily lost his whole chips and somehow he found his way on top. Specifically against Phil Ivey where he caught his ace on the river. He should of known he was behind when Ivey went all in. Ivey knew he had the queen but there was no way Moneymaker could have the fullhouse. Again Moneymaker got lucky when he was against pocket aces. He had pocket 8's and the turn came up an 8. Moneymaker made lots of amateur mistakes, but the cards saved him. But to win the world series of poker I guess you have to be lucky. He also did make some really good plays. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, noiseboy, 24. Sep 2003 09:21 | ||
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| Phil Ivey's one of my favorite players, but I have to say it was him that made the amateur mistake in that hand. Calling that bet with the underpair just wasn't a good idea at that point. His cards belonged in the muck with Lester's TT's. MM did exactly what he was supposed to, get the money in when he likely (as far as he knew) had the best hand. He probably thought he had a split at worse, since he can't run around worried about people hitting two-outers. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Tim C, 24. Sep 2003 14:43 | ||
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| I agree Ivey made a bad play and and paid the price. I would like to know what he was thinking when he called. It's one of those moves by a pro which if hit looks like a brilliant move. If the amateaur player did that he would be called an idiot. Must have thought it was 1 2 limit. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, shorn, 25. Sep 2003 05:10 | ||
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| I disagree that Ivey's call was a poor play. MM bet $70k into a $210k pot, thereby giving Ivey 4-1 on his call. Granted, that wasn't the odds of hitting his hand, but he was only risking 70k of his 450k or so stack. In my mind, his thought process was one of two things: That MM was bluffing and didn't have a Queen and therefore his 99 was good at that point, or two even if MM did have a Queen, that a call would get himn two shots at a 9 as MM might check the Turn regardless of what comes. Also, if he doesn hit a 9 and MM does have a Queen, he is a giant favorite to double through and be positioned well for the final table. Finally, if the 9 doesn't come on the turn and MM bets again, he can easily get away from his underpair hand...he wasn't by any means pot comitting himself OR playing a hand that he had to call all the way down. I vote that he gave himself a 50/50 chance that his 9's were good, putting MM on AK or a middle pocket pair (other than 6's) and that he was bluffing. Then when the 9 came and he went all-in, he was a huge favorite to double through and MM hit on the river. Those are the breaks. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, shorn, 25. Sep 2003 05:11 | ||
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| Oops...I meant to say if he DOES hit 9 and MM has a Queen.... | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Schuster, 25. Sep 2003 07:33 | ||
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| I agree entirely with Steve's reasoning. There's too many ways his hand could be good here, and if it isn't, he stands to make a lot of money if he hits his miracle card. Lee | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, noiseboy, 25. Sep 2003 14:06 | ||
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| Hmm, I guess if you consider the implied odds factor of MM's huge amount of chips, maybe it's OK to call 70K to hit two outs to double through. I disagree about Ivey thinking it was 50/50 that MM was bluffing. He raised preflop, then bet strongly into two players. I think Ivey had to have him on either an AQ or a larger pair than his like TT' s JJ's or AA's. Also, MM had been playing tight at the final table and not risking his large stack up to that point, ie, doing what he is supposed to do. All of this doesn't even consider that Lester is still behind him to act, and called a raise pre-flop, so even if you have MM on a bluff, you are risking putting in 70K, then getting blown off the hand by Lester, if he was slowplaying a big hand. I guess a lot depends on his read of Lester too. Maybe he picked up something that indicated Lester would fold. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Grateful Rooster, 25. Sep 2003 06:47 | ||
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| Can anyone recall the exact hand played out between Ivey and MM? I remember only the lucky ace as a bad beat on Ivey, so it's hard to follow without seeing the cards. GR | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, AJones, 25. Sep 2003 06:56 | ||
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| I believe Farha had TJo and moneymaker had 45o and the flop came J45. Farha pushed it all in and moneymaker quickly called. Andrew | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, shorn, 25. Sep 2003 07:02 | ||
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| MM was in EP with AQ, Ivey in LP with 99 and one other player OTB with TT. MM raises to $60k which both players call, so there is roughly $210k in pot eith the blinds. Flop comes Q6Q rainbow. MM now underbets the pot for $70k and Ivey calls. TT player folds. Turn is a 9 for board of Q6Q9. MM bets $200k, and Ivey goes all-in. MM calls instantly. River is the Ace giving MM the higher boat. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Grateful Rooster, 25. Sep 2003 08:20 | ||
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| Thanks, shorn. You remember all that detail, get it from tape or what? I agree almost completely with your assessment. Good chance MM was bluffing (he'd shown at least an ability to do that) and the implied odds were enough to risk the call to the turn. The river bullet caught him in the back. GR | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Pedro, 25. Sep 2003 07:19 | ||
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| Ivey vs mm was MM with AQ and Ivey with 99. Flop came QQ ? i think 6 Turn was 9 and river was ace | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Eman, 24. Sep 2003 06:30 | ||
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| Heres my guess on why Farha played it like he did. 1) Hes seen MM outdraw some opponents and get "lucky" with marginal starting hands. 2) Hes assuming that the flop didnt really help MM. 3) I think hes figuring MM with overcards or is on a draw, Or a week pckt pair. If he had bigger pair than JJ, he would assume that MM would have raised preflop. I like sammy's play, he misread MM, o well. I think MM got extremely lucky through the course of the tourny. | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, Grateful Rooster, 24. Sep 2003 08:18 | ||
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| My recall of the final play (didn't view last night) was that Sam was frustrated by generally not being able to read MM and losing a big pot earlier by not calling his bluff. I think he let that get to him a bit and so might have been a bit overdetermined to play at MM. Plus, it was late into a long day. Don't discount the fatigue factor. While it's tough to put MM on 54 he could easily have had trips, trying to trap Sam with the slow play preflop. I think Sam read a draw, and went with his instinct. Not a good call, but his choice was pretty much all-in or fold. MM got a great flop, not just because he had a 2-1 lead, but because he could play it like a draw and sucker Sam in. A larger bet over Sam on the flop may have signaled too much strength. Anyway, that's my read. Yes, MM had phenomenal luck to overcome some amateur mistakes throughout the tourney, but he also made some great plays, especially against the looser players. GR on 24. Sep 2003 06:09 shorn wrote: > I was watching the re-run of the WSOP last night and was particularly struck > about the last hand that was played. Farha held JhTd and Moneymaker held 5d4s. > Farha raised a small amount pre-flop which Moneymaker called. Flop comes Js5s4c > ginvg Farha top pair and MM middle two. > > Farha bets out $100k I think (which I agree with) and MM raises another $175k, > both smart plays (although you could argue that MM should have raised a larger > number with a str8 and flush draw out there). What I can't understand is why in > the hell Farha went all-in then with top pair, crappy kicker?? It wasn't like > he was in danger of blinding out and needed to make a move. He was one hand > away from doubling through to the chip lead. Also, he had seen MM call down > more than few all-in's from other players, so it wasn't like MM was a pushover > when someone showed that kind of strength. > > I don't understand the strategy behind this move against this player. Anyone > else confused by this or have a good strategic reason to make this play? > > Steve | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, noiseboy, 24. Sep 2003 09:15 | ||
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| I think it was because he realized after the fact that he was pushed off that other big pot by MM's aggression, and that his read of a busted flush draw was correct. Anyway, he was probably frustrated at getting bluffed off a big pot and maybe thought MM was out of line again. It's hard to say really, maybe he just thought that he had the best hand, and that MM might call with something worse. Maybe he was tilting a bit. | ||
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| NO on was on tilt!!, MrTeLLnj, 24. Sep 2003 17:33 | ||
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| maybe farha,,,,,,,,,,,the way i see it was farha was just getting pissed and wanted the game to be done with . So he said all in,,,,,,,,,,he did this because of the way he won all the other hands..ex..Pair of jacks and aces all night,, | ||
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| Re: NO on was on tilt!!, Risky Business, 25. Sep 2003 06:21 | ||
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| Sorry, but I don't think you make it to the final 2 at the biggest tournament in your profession, then "want the game to be done with" There's no way to read anyone for 4-5. He had top pair and wanted the pot, that's it. on 24. Sep 2003 17:33 MrTeLLnj wrote: > maybe farha,,,,,,,,,,,the way i see it was farha was just getting pissed and wanted the > game to be done with . So he said all in,,,,,,,,,,he did this because of the way he won > all the other hands..ex..Pair of jacks and aces all night,, | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, MozMan, 24. Sep 2003 18:12 | ||
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| I saw this too. Here's my take: I beleive there were several things going on: 1- Farha knows that, heads-up, any pair is normally tremendous, so he really thought he had the best hand, and probably put MM on on big overcards. He wanted to push him off those before he caught one. 2- Farha looked frustrated at that point. He may now have been thinking clearly enough for a good read. 3- Farha already recognized that MM was not afraid to use his chip-lead for some bulldozing. Again, evidence (in Farha's eyes) that MM is on big overcards. -Moz "You can see your reflection in the luminescent dash." | ||
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| Re: Sam Farha's Last hand at WSOP 2003, ADAM THE EXPERT, 25. Sep 2003 11:33 | ||
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| This is such a simple answer, but, I will spend a minute. HELLO, HELLO!!! Do you think that even the best players in the world, are right 100% of the time?? It's obvious, that Sam put this "MM" person, on a lessor hand, perhaps overcards, or middle pair, and didn't want to give him a cheap chance to spike up on the turn. Maybe it was a MACHO thing, and he wanted to go out swinging, instead of going out like a chump, just calling. | ||
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