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Server Time: 2/13/2012 8:43:17 PM PACIFIC |
 PLO Question, Kurab, 23. Sep 2003 20:38 | ||
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| Did I do the right thing here by folding - I knew he had the str8 Getting Hand History Information... ---------------------------------------------------------------- Hand #432608-2170 at Gouda (Pot Limit Omaha) Powered by UltimateBet Started at 23/Sep/03 23:27:44 tex54 is at seat 0 with $18.70. DocBlufMaster is at seat 1 with $25.45. WallySr is at seat 2 with $9.25. JustGotWicked is at seat 3 with $43.45. joe tourist is at seat 4 with $32.55. c d flop fold is at seat 5 with $19. DemonCube is at seat 6 with $18.75. spd6464 is at seat 7 with $41.45. KurabDurbos is at seat 8 with $27.25. sonofmad is at seat 9 with $55. The button is at seat 9. tex54 posts the small blind of $.10. DocBlufMaster posts the big blind of $.25. tex54: -- -- -- -- DocBlufMaster: -- -- -- -- WallySr: -- -- -- -- JustGotWicked: -- -- -- -- joe tourist: -- -- -- -- c d flop fold: -- -- -- -- DemonCube: -- -- -- -- spd6464: -- -- -- -- KurabDurbos: Jd Qh 4s Tc sonofmad: -- -- -- -- Pre-flop: WallySr calls. JustGotWicked folds. joe tourist calls. c d flop fold folds. DemonCube calls. spd6464 calls. KurabDurbos calls. sonofmad calls. tex54 calls. DocBlufMaster checks. Flop (board: Qc 2h 4c): tex54 checks. DocBlufMaster checks. WallySr checks. joe tourist checks. DemonCube bets $2. spd6464 calls. KurabDurbos calls. sonofmad folds. tex54 calls. DocBlufMaster folds. WallySr folds. joe tourist folds. Turn (board: Qc 2h 4c 5h): tex54 checks. DemonCube bets $10. spd6464 folds. KurabDurbos folds. tex54 calls. River (board: Qc 2h 4c 5h 4h): tex54 checks. DemonCube checks. Showdown: tex54 shows Qd Ah Jc 5s. tex54 has Qd 5s Qc 4c 5h: two pair, queens and fives. DemonCube shows Ac 8c 4d 3s. DemonCube has Ac 3s 2h 4c 5h: straight, five high. Hand #432608-2170 Summary: $1 is raked from a pot of $30. DemonCube wins $29 with straight, | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, Schuster, 23. Sep 2003 20:57 | ||
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| I'm a bit of a new player on PLO, but I will give my thoughts anyway. First off, I don't like even seeing the flop. You have a classic "3 legged hand" in that the 4 does absolutely nothing. PLO is a game of strong made hands and strong draws, and you need to give yourself as much chance as possible to create one of those. The only strong draw you can hope for is a 9-T-x or A-K-x flop. Stick to hands where all 4 of your cards work together. Now, after the flop, top 2 pair in PLO is not a good holding and should be mucked under most circumstances. You're drawing to the big full, and may be drawing dead if someone has top set. I would wait until I flop really well to invest any of my money. I would fold on the flop if I had paid to see it. Now, even if you did stay in the hand, you can't feel confident about your 4's full. Omaha is a game of the nuts and your hand is far from it. If you had flopped top set, then you could play aggressively, but otherwise, there's too many ways that your hand might not be good. In my opinion, you stayed in the hand too long as opposed to getting out too early. Lee | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, Poker God, 24. Sep 2003 01:23 | ||
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| well i would agree with schuster that you should never see a flop to begin with with that hand. but as you limp and hit a piece you need to make a play for the pot. assuming that you call with QJ104 i would think that you may want to make a raise of the pot after the first player bets to find out where your at. that said it is a risking play where you will either take the pot right there or invest more deeply with a not so great hand. if your willing to gamble with the QJ104 then i would say you need to gamble by making the raise. just a thought | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, 4 POKER, 25. Sep 2003 04:48 | ||
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| Hey Kurab, Your starting hand is really not a good hand. You have three working cards for a straight but you hold a 4 which does not improve/add any strength to your straight cards. The hand is completely unsuited, which will not allow you to complete a flush for redraw if needed. You should be asking yourself here, "what flop do I really want to see with my holding"? The only flop that may be a good one for you is to flop the nut straight with no flush draw possibilty whatsoever, or, a flop of Q-Q-J for the present nuts. Not really alot of outs for that type of hand, and in Omaha, whether it be pot limit, or just limit, you want to hold cards that have alot of ways to 'connect' with the flop with also having redraw with them; like holding two very strong cards for low and a suited Ace to go with it. OR....if you're referring to a high holding like the one you had....a starting hand like Q-J-10-K suited or better yet, "A"-Q-J-10 suited. That hand will have more possibilities of connecting to nut straights and/or a nut flush, and sometimes...if the hand winds up going heads up on the flop, even if you flopped top two, you could stand a good chance at having the best hand at that moment,(you could continue with more ease and/or aggression), AND, you would also have redraw to the nut straight. (just a few thoughts). But, considering that you did chose to play this hand....once that flop comes up is where you need to think about your holding. Yes, you flopped top two pair here, BUT, there was also a low connecting straight draw on the flop as well, and the flop also contained a flush draw. I think that when someone bets out here, you should consider to fold your hand now. Alot of players like to enter alot of pots, but they will limp in cheap, and get out cheap if it's not a flop that has enough outs to continue safely. Okay, so you called the initial bet on the flop. But when the turn brings another low card....not only could that indicate a made low, it 'also' brought a possible straight, and, there's still the flush draw possibilty that, if it does hit on the river, can really crush your chances even more. So here is where you must fold. There is no question about it. The player made a pretty substantial bet on the turn and even if he didn't turn a straight.....why call a bet when you know that the best that can possibly happen for you would be to split the pot. And that's the BEST that you could hope for. He's already guarnteed half of the pot, and if he 'did' happen to hold even two little flush cards that were suited with the flops two flush cards....if he hits it on the river, now you're really dead. Now...if you did decide to call the bet on the turn, the only card that would be a safe/good card for your hand would be the third Q on the river. Not enough potential "at all" to even think of calling a bet on the turn with. So, no question at all....the fold you made on the turn was correct. When the flop really doesn't suit your hand enough, (no matter how great it was coming in)....this is the way I look at it..."why put any of your chips into a pot that can only (possibly) add more earnings for an already made hand, or one that you feel may have hit the flop stronger than you, with alot more potential to complete"? When you can't really continue with ease, and/or, you're looking for ways to push players out of the pot, or you "cringe" even a little bit when the flop comes up.......it's a 'good indicator' that your holding doesn't warrant a call anymore. That's why "you" need to be sitting in the driver's seat, and put 'your' chips in when they'll have very strong possibilities of turning into more chips. Good luck to you. 4P- | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, 4 POKER, 25. Sep 2003 10:47 | ||
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| Oops.......Sorry Kurab. Disregard most of what I said. I thought you were talking about PLO8!........"#&*%", that is the second time I did that :( 4P- | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, stdioh, 25. Sep 2003 10:25 | ||
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| Yes. First of all, TJQX is a lousy hand to be playing in any game that isn't increadibly loose. You should have chucked it preflop, but you play it and fine. Now when you flop top 2 pair, you have to know that there are draws out there, but not likely really good draws. If the flop was 89K there's a much better chance of somebody having a big wrapper draw, but with that flop you probably have the best hand right now. You can also be fairly certain that it won't be the best hand on the river unless it improves. Also, if somebody is on bottom set, which is much less likely since you're playing high-only, than it would be in hi-lo, you want to chase him off it if you can, knowing that it is unlikely for anybody to be on top or middle set. So basically your choices here are folding or raising. I think that calling is terrible as it gives you no idea as to where you are in the hand and lets others draw free. Now on the turn, there is a straight on board so you have exactly 4 outs. What's more, if you hit a 4 chances are good that somebody will make a better tight and if you hit a queen chances are decent that somebody will make a better tight. Thus you're drawing to a second best hand. While it is possible for somebody not to have the straight, don't play omaha by guessing that people don't hold the nuts. Most often somebody has a nut straight nomatter where it materializes. You've got to pitch your hand at that point. | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, Kurab, 25. Sep 2003 10:55 | ||
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| Thanks for all the input - I am still learning Omaha and I know I play too many hands still. What I had been wondering was should I have called the $10 - and it looks like I made the right decision - I figured the str8 after 4th street and was just bummed to lose a large pot after the 4 came up on the river. (I should of stayed in - it was UB after all - LOL - kidding) | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, 4 POKER, 25. Sep 2003 12:37 | ||
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| One of the problems with your hand had you 'did' decide to call a $10 bet on the turn would be the player who was behind you as well. He could have easily raised the pot himself on the turn once you called the first player. And without having at least one draw to a flush (because the turn card did bring two possible flush draws now), any one of those players could have also had some kind of redraw to a flush. You also could have been up against a set of Queens, leaving you drawing completely dead. IMO, your fold on the turn was one that needed to be made for all of those reasons. The only reason why your slightly second-guessing yourself now is because you would have won the pot if you had made the call. No need to think about that at all......you made the right decision based on the strength of your hand (which was not very strong there).....you were in a trap position...and you didn't have any back-up at all to go with it, if need be. That's how I see it anyway. 4P- | ||
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| Re: PLO Question, stdioh, 25. Sep 2003 14:50 | ||
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| Actually, Demoncube is a decent player. There are some very fishy games that happen there, but where there is blood in the water sharks are not far behind. Don't be too quick to dismiss the skill of an opponent just because he's playing in a game with a high average pot. | ||
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