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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:44:58 AM PACIFIC |
 Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 07:52 | ||
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| I was playing in a 2 table tourney and this hand comes up. Did i misplay the hand? I agree that became a little greedy when I saw the flop. This table was very passive. I thought I could maximize my profits. Let me know if you agree or disagree with my play. Thanks for any comments. PokerStars Game #123926865: Tournament #352125, Hold'em No Limit - > Level III (25/50) - 2003/09/20 - 21:22:41 (EST) > Table '352125 2' Seat #4 is the button > Seat 1: lawsoncb (1690 in chips) > Seat 3: ANNA MARIE (1135 in chips) > Seat 4: LeChipBurner (830 in chips) > Seat 5: neenee (1300 in chips) > Seat 6: weezie318 (1840 in chips) > Seat 7: valebukk (2965 in chips) > Seat 8: Hatchthunder (1530 in chips) > Seat 9: 15minutes (875 in chips) > neenee: posts small blind 25 > weezie318: posts big blind 50 > *** HOLE CARDS *** > Dealt to Hatchthunder [6s 6c] > valebukk: calls 50 > Hatchthunder: calls 50 > 15minutes: calls 50 > lawsoncb: folds > ANNA MARIE: folds > LeChipBurner: folds > neenee: calls 25 > weezie318: checks > *** FLOP *** [As 6d Qs] > neenee: checks > weezie318: bets 50 > valebukk: raises 50 to 100 > Hatchthunder: raises 100 to 200 > 15minutes: calls 200 > neenee: folds > weezie318: folds > valebukk: calls 100 > *** TURN *** [As 6d Qs] [8c] > valebukk: checks > Hatchthunder: bets 500 > 15minutes: calls 500 > valebukk: folds > *** RIVER *** [As 6d Qs 8c] [4s] > Hatchthunder: bets 150 > 15minutes: calls 125 and is all-in > *** SHOW DOWN *** > Hatchthunder: shows [6s 6c] (three of a kind, Sixes) > 15minutes: shows [9s 7s] (a flush, Ace high) > 15minutes collected 2150 from pot > valebukk said, "nh" > *** SUMMARY *** > Total pot 2150 | Rake 0 > Board [As 6d Qs 8c 4s] > Seat 1: lawsoncb folded before Flop (didn't bet) > Seat 3: ANNA MARIE folded before Flop (didn't bet) > Seat 4: LeChipBurner (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: > neenee (small blind) folded on the Flop Seat 6: weezie318 (big blind) > folded on the Flop Seat 7: valebukk folded on the Turn > Seat 8: Hatchthunder showed [6s 6c] and lost with three of a kind, Sixes > Seat 9: 15minutes showed [9s 7s] and won (2150) with a flush, Ace high > I just wanted the pot when I bet 500 on the turn. I thought one of them was on a pair of aces and one was probably on a flush draw. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 08:02 | ||
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| I think you need to put in a bigger raise on the flop here. With the 2-flush out there, you need to make it punitive for any flush draw to call and your raise to 200 didn't do that. Also, you probably get a lot of pot equity rom anyone holding AK or AQ as they might come along for the ride and are drawing close to dead. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 08:17 | ||
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| Shorn, I was just trying to make anyone holding an ace pay me. I had a tight table image and thought if I raised it any higher I would not get any callers. I tried to punish the flush seekers on the turn. Thanks for your comments. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 08:22 | ||
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| I understand why you did what you did. But, if you go back and recount the $$ in the pot, you were giving flush seekers close to 3-1 on each street. With those odds, anyone with a good flush will probably call you down and the pot was already big enough to win on the flop. I am just saying that I would have played my set much faster with two of a suit on the flop so that if someone decides to call with the flush draw, they are getting horrible odds to do so. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 08:26 | ||
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| Shorn, I recognize that Pot odds is a serious weakness in my game. I just could not see him calling almost all his chips on a flush draw no matter what the odds. Do you think I should have checked the river when the flush card fell? | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 08:51 | ||
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| I would have checked the flush card simply because there aren't any other draws out there. Only problem is, if he bets you have a tough decision to make. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 08:57 | ||
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| You have to figure he will bet all in at that point. I figured him for the flush and did not want to check and have him go all in so I bet him all-in. Boo Hoo. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 09:15 | ||
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| That's true. So, I would have made my turn bet big enough so that he would have to call all-in to continue and therefore he gets poorer odds AND I win all his money when he doesn't hit (because if he misses and you bet again, he likely folds). | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 09:24 | ||
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| I was not betting against just him on the turn remember. I had 2 opponents. So I just bet the 500 to get them both to fold to my bet. One did. In retrospect I should have just made the bet to put at least one of them all in on the turn. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, jaustin, 22. Sep 2003 09:17 | ||
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| Your bet sizes are off. You should either bet big on the flop or just cold-call. By rasing 100, you're building a pot big enough to justify a flush draw calling on the turn. You need to manipulate pot odds to make the flush fold (either on the flop or the turn). Also, on the turn, you should have have put him all-in as that would have been a bit tougher of a call for him to make (probably wouldn't have made a difference though). You want to just take the pot on the flop rather than trying to milk an A for more $$. You're risking your whole stack for an additional 300 or so more chips. Slow-playing is usually not the right move in NL unless you have a hand with little chance of being beaten. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 09:26 | ||
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| on 22. Sep 2003 09:17 jaustin wrote: > Your bet sizes are off. You should either bet big on the flop or just cold-call. By > rasing 100, you're building a pot big enough to justify a flush draw calling on the > turn. You need to manipulate pot odds to make the flush fold (either on the flop or > the turn). > > Also, on the turn, you should have have put him all-in as that would have been a bit > tougher of a call for him to make (probably wouldn't have made a difference > though). > > You want to just take the pot on the flop rather than trying to milk an A for more > $$. You're risking your whole stack for an additional 300 or so more chips. > Slow-playing is usually not the right move in NL unless you have a hand with little > chance of being beaten. I did was not risking my whole stack. I was second at the table. I was hurt after this but I was not out. I made a huge bet in relation to the chip stacks of my 2 opponents on the turn. I did not and would not risk my whole stack with a flush draw out there in pokerland. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, jaustin, 22. Sep 2003 09:41 | ||
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| on 22. Sep 2003 09:26 Hatchthunder wrote: > on 22. Sep 2003 09:17 jaustin wrote: > > Your bet sizes are off. You should either bet big on the flop or just cold-call. By > > > rasing 100, you're building a pot big enough to justify a flush draw calling on the > > turn. You need to manipulate pot odds to make the flush fold (either on the flop or > > the turn). > > > > Also, on the turn, you should have have put him all-in as that would have been a bit > > tougher of a call for him to make (probably wouldn't have made a difference > > though). > > > > You want to just take the pot on the flop rather than trying to milk an A for more > > $$. You're risking your whole stack for an additional 300 or so more chips. > > Slow-playing is usually not the right move in NL unless you have a hand with little > > chance of being beaten. > > I did was not risking my whole stack. I was second at the table. I was hurt after this > but I was not out. I made a huge bet in relation to the chip stacks of my 2 opponents on > the turn. I did not and would not risk my whole stack with a flush draw out there in > pokerland. You're risking your whole stack in the sense that the chip leader is involved in the pot with you. True you probably won't lose it all as you would fold if a flush comes and he were to move you all in, but he could be on two pair and beat you when he fills up, or even just an ace and catch runner-runner, or perhaps a straight draw and when an off-suit ten falls you bet big thinking you're good. My comment about taking down the stack early was more of a general one. IMO, you have more to lose by letting people stick around then you usually have to gain. Keep winning the small-medium pots and you'll do fine. All it takes is one bad beat and you're out. | ||
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| Re: Bad Beat or bad play?, Hatchthunder, 22. Sep 2003 09:46 | ||
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| > You're risking your whole stack in the sense that the chip leader is involved in the pot with > you. True you probably won't lose it all as you would fold if a flush comes and he were to > move you all in, but he could be on two pair and beat you when he fills up, or even just an ace > and catch runner-runner, or perhaps a straight draw and when an off-suit ten falls you bet big > thinking you're good. > > My comment about taking down the stack early was more of a general one. IMO, you have more to > lose by letting people stick around then you usually have to gain. Keep winning the > small-medium pots and you'll do fine. All it takes is one bad beat and you're out. I think you are correct. It seems that whenever I try some fancy play that I think will make me more money it always tends to lose me money in the end. I should have been happy to win the pot after that flop. I wanted them to call me to the end and bust them both with their top pairs or busted flush. I got what I wanted just not the result I wanted. | ||
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