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Server Time: 9/7/2008 7:37:12 PM PACIFIC |
 good play or to tired to think straight?, Poker God, 22. Sep 2003 07:49 | ||
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| playing .10-.25 NLH 2 off the button, 2 tight players limp in and i make a call with 8d4d, the button makes it $2.50 to go and only the 2 limpers call, the raiser is a pretty tight player and only bets top hands, i figure that i could call on the chance that if i hit a lucky flop i can take down a big pot, im also getting about 3.5-1 to call, so i do. flop comes down 10d-7h-6d giving me a double belly and flush draw, first limper bets the pot and the second limp folds, i just call hoping the button will raise. he does and pushes his stack all in,which has me covered, the orginal bettor calls his stack off and i go ahead and call getting about 3-1 on my call. they flip up A10o and KK, i spike a 9 on the turn to take down and $120 pot and then get repromanded for the next hour about how horrible a play it was. so im wondering, was it a bad play after all? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 07:58 | ||
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| Calling pre-flop for 1 bet with a 3 gapper is a waste of $$ IMO. OK, so if you limp and there is no raise, fine I can handle that. But when someone puts it to $2.50 and you still call? That's a sure way to lose all your $$. On the flop, you got just enough to compound your error and continue calling and you hit your miracle on the turn. Bottom line...this was really lucky. You have to ask yourself before you enter a pot in NL...Do I want to commit all my chips to this hand? If I saw 84s, my answer would be a resounding no. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Pedro, 22. Sep 2003 08:08 | ||
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| Well once ther hand was raised I would of gotten out. I think you were to tired to think straight lol. Even after the flop you have an 18% chance of winning. Your 3 to 1 money is not justified. But I guess you were going on feeling. You got lucky I wouldnt call it a good play | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, noiseboy, 24. Sep 2003 09:50 | ||
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| As long as he thinks all his outs are good, based on what hands he puts the opponents on, he's getting way above 18%. There are nine diamonds and 6 str8 cards that aren't diamonds. Fifteen outs twice, as long as the outs are good, is more than enough to get all the money in. The way the action came down, I think he can be fairly certain his outs are good. I would adjust the odds down a bit based on what I think the chances are that some of the odds are no good. I might put guestimate them at about 40%. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, WilliamS, 22. Sep 2003 09:20 | ||
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| If the other two players hands don't include diamonds I think he has a 37% chance at winning the pot and he was correct in his post flop play. I agree I wouldn't have played the hand. But he has lots of outs with a double belly and a flush draw. If the other players held any diamonds his chances aren't quite that good. Will | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 09:23 | ||
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| I think that is the point though. Only 4 of his outs are really clean (the low end of the belly buster), so he is taking the chance that hitting one of the other outs is no good and he's risking all of his chips on it. That is not something that I think you want to do on a regular basis in NL. In a limit game, it is a no brainer call...in NL for all your chips, its a no-no. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, noiseboy, 24. Sep 2003 09:44 | ||
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| I agree that calling a raise pre-flop was a mistake a suited 3-gap just isn't enough; however, he had a bunch of outs on the flop, and the pot was offering him good odds since it was multi-way. I think the post-flop play is fine as it's not a tournament where you only get a certain amount of chips. If he misses the draws, fine, he can just buy more chips. If he hits them, he triples his stack. He can be fairly certain that he is the only one the eight str8 outs will hit, and as long as only one diamond comes and not two, his diamond draw is probably good as well. In a tournament, no way am I calling all in on the come, but in a side game, if the odds are right, you'd be wrong not to call. I haven't even considered the action he probably got on later hands, once he's branded a fish by the other players. Overall, I'd want something better to call the pre-flop raise with, however. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Stevolley2, 22. Sep 2003 09:40 | ||
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| I think it was a good play. With an open ended straight and a flush draw, you have 15 outs. This does take into consideration that you do not put anyone on the 89. For an all-in since the 10 was a diamond, that eliminates ATd calling the all-in. AKd can't go all in. The only other possible hands that would be leaving you with less than 50% win rate, would be A9d along with A7d. Even those hands are tough to go all-in with. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, grant pittman, 22. Sep 2003 11:19 | ||
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| Looking at the threads for this post I see that it has received a lot of attention. Most people think it was a poor play to play the hand at all. I would say that you are gambling here with 8,4 suited but I don't see anyone considering perhaps the biggest factor in the play of this hand. I am making reference to your stack size and more importantly your opponents stacks. This is especially true of your opponent on the button who you strongly suspect has a big pair. If you make it your primary objective to get involved with players that are easy to read and at the same time have a lot of chips in front of them, you will be better served playing this type of hand. I think this situation met the criteria preflop IF the button player was deep in chips and you had enough in front of you to get his chips if you hit a flop like you did. Often times in no limit and pot limit the strength of your hand is not the most important consideration when deciding to play or not. This is a great example of this concept. Just a thought. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Pedro, 22. Sep 2003 11:35 | ||
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| Maybe in tournament I would call grant but once the hand has been raised in a no limit non tournament game I dont think id call with 84 suited. In tournament you already entered the amount fo money you can lose. In a no limit game you can lose a lot more. There is a difference. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, grant pittman, 22. Sep 2003 11:43 | ||
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| I believe your thinking to be exactly opposite of what is true for the situation. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Schuster, 22. Sep 2003 11:52 | ||
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| I agree with Grant completely. If your bankroll is adequate, then you shouldn't shy away from making a +EV bet in a cash game, even if it is marginal. In a tournament, your chips are precious and irreplacable, and you should avoid situations where you only have a marginal edge. And I don't think there's any reason he shouldn't put the rest of his chips in after he saw that flop. He's better than even money to make a straight or flush by the river and he's getting 2 other people to put all the money in with him. Even if there are times where your made hand won't be good, you're getting a strong overlay. I'd take this bet in a heartbeat. Lee | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 12:41 | ||
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| OK, Grant, I will play along. Where do you draw the line here? 84s is a pretty crappy hand that will flop solidly 1 time out of 20 if you are lucky. And, my point was that even with the flop he got, not too many of his "outs" were pure in that they guaranteed him a winner. I agree that the implied odds were quite high if the button was deep in chips and more importantly had a big pair. However, there is no guarantee that he would go all-in with that pair which is a critical component to determining the EV of playing this hand. Bottom line, I think that this particular hand is too weak for the play that you recommend. Additionaly (and no offense here Poker God), I doubt that enough was actually known about the button to make this play with such a marginal holding. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Mark, 22. Sep 2003 14:33 | ||
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| Shorn, Much of the super system and Brunson's play (argueable the best No limit player - at his best) is based on what grant is talking about. Granted 8-4 suited is very weak ( i don't know if i've ever played one), but when you do hit a hand with it, you can usually break someone. If the opponent has a big stack (worth going after) and you can get all or most of it, it may be worth playing garbage hands. I haven't played no limit since the spring, but some of my biggest pots came on low connectors like 34, 45, 46, etc, etc. Most people never expect you to play those "garbage" hands. They think their over pair or set is good and that you can't possibly have a low str8 (or some other hidden hand). While i would prefer to have AA every time, i find that some "garbage" hands do play very well in some situations. Mark | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Poker God, 22. Sep 2003 21:03 | ||
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| since this has gotten such a great response i guess ill give you my thinking on the play the orginal 2 limpers did not worry me as i knew that they only played high, solid, starting hands. my call was that if i the flop came low i could just easily take the pot. when the button raised my thinking changed a little. the only previous hands i had seen him raise with were AA and JJ. that said i knew i was an underdog but thought it to be a profitable play to call the bet with the 2 limpers, with the fact that if i could hit a flop i would get payed off by the button. yes i was lucky to hit the hand i did but i think it to be a +EV over the long run, where i forfit a small bet numorous times but only need to hit the hand once to make a large profit. any thoughts? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 23:51 | ||
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| and poker god, i did read grant post and i agree. like i said twice: 8-4 is the nuts | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, shorn, 23. Sep 2003 04:43 | ||
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| I haven't read Super System because I had been told that it was somewhat out of date. But, you have certainly piqued my interest in this thread. I guess the part that I still have trouble with is about "knowing" that the button had an overpair. Additionally, the 3-gap nature of this hand suggests to me that I still throw it away every time unless my opponents were all so deep in chips that I could make up for a ton of times where I called and missed. If the hand were the others you mentioned (76, 54, 43s), I could swallow it a bit better as the odds of hitting with those hands is somewhat higher (albeit not deastically) than with 84s. I guess I need to unlearn the things ingrained in me for limit play if I ever want to be a top notch NL player. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, chasepoker, 23. Sep 2003 05:57 | ||
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| Coming back to the example given in this situation does the 8d 4d not have almost a 50% chance of winning after the flop ( making this an easy call ) against these hands ? The hands could have been AA and KK it would not mkae much difference or am i missing something ? The reason you can play stuff like this Shorn is due to the massive implied odds in NL poker. To make plays like this work you have to have a big stack and be playing with someone who also has a large stack ( obviously ! ) but also someone who is not afraid to stick it all in with a non nut hand ( OFF TOPIC -which i believe you have to do to be a winner at NL ). Read Doyle's book he explains it better than me but also play a lot of NL and you will see the amount of times you can drag down monster pots with low / seemingly poor cards. I believe this is due to people becoming psycholgicaly attatched to big pre flop hands ( AA / KK ) and then calling massive bets on the flop with them. Only then do they think to themselves " why did i call 100x BB when only 5x BB was in the pot and all i had was AA !!!! " Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, shorn, 23. Sep 2003 06:35 | ||
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| Chase- I hear you and agree that after the flop the odds were most likely there to continue, even though only 4 of the outs were really clean (given imperfect information). But, as you point out, the likelihood that the button at least was on a draw here was extremely low, adding to your pot equity. The part I am having trouble with is recognizing the potential of 84s pre-flop, especially after thew button makes a pot sized raise. By the time it gets back to you, you are only getting 3-1 which on the surface doesn't look anywhere near good enough. However, given that you are last to act and your opponents are quite deep in chips, then I guess the implied odds (and the fact that your cards are most likely clean in the case of 2 pair) are so high that it is worth a little -EV pre-flop to try and bust someone. I am beginning to understand that NL is nowhere near the same kind of math game that limit is...the math that is important is the probability that your opponent has a certain hand vs. another AND how big his stack is relative to the amount you have to call to see the flop. The actual size of the pre-flop pot seems to have little to do with the correct decision. Thanks for all the input. Steve | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, chasepoker, 23. Sep 2003 08:04 | ||
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| Shorn you are right in stating that No Limit game has less to do with pot odds than implied odds, when i am making a decision in no limit it is seldom just the pot that i am looking ( unless facing an all in obviously ! ) at but also the potential pot that i could win. As well as the oppositions stack you need to work out how well disguised your hand is should you hit it ( whilst writing this i realise i am pretty much quoting Brunson here but what the heck its how i play anyway ! ). The best example if this is the flush draw where 2 of your suit are on the board and you guess the opposition has a top pair / over pair what are the chances of him paying you off if the 3 of your suit comes. I guess though you pretty much know all of this but it is stuff that becomes a lot more important in no limit than limit. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Grateful Rooster, 23. Sep 2003 12:19 | ||
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| I've been trying to get this debate for a while with no success as I usually get the traditional limit perspective. This is an excellent discussion and timely as I am now reading Brunson and playing both limit and NL-tourneys, but as I still have a lot to learn I take more of a tight-aggressive approach conducive to solid limit play. So here's my question. I've read that Brunson's approach works in table games, but not so much in tourneys as you've got the one-and-done scenario. However, Brunson was clearly a top-notch tourney player in his prime. Do you just need to be that much better of a card and player reader to apply Brunson to NL tourneys, or is there something else? Tighten up a bit early-on? Best, GR | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Poker God, 23. Sep 2003 17:21 | ||
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| also something to take into account about this is the action i received afterwards from players always thinking i was in with bad hands. i guess that would be almost reason enough to make the play if your image is effected that greatly by it. my +EV will signifigantly go up as people are always making larger bets at me preflop thinking i hold a horrible hand when i am in fact slowplaying a huge one. the play works aslong as i tighten up from that point on. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Grateful Rooster, 24. Sep 2003 07:50 | ||
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| In response to Poker God's last post (since the system won't let me extend the thread). The image is a big part of Brunson's system, but he doesn't tighten up as you strategize. If you stop firing at pots, players will notice the shift, and probably just be more defensive. Still, you'll be hard to place on a hand and should get more calls on your larger bets and maybe be able to bluff small straights. High risk-return strategy and somewhat requires players staying at the table to see the advertisement, I think. Anyone play this way successfully in NL tourneys or SNGs? GR | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, chasepoker, 24. Sep 2003 08:05 | ||
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| What you must take into account as well is the fact the a lot of the stuff Brunson talks about is for use against GOOD players. If the people you are playing against are paying no attention to what you have then you ( as he states ) " are just going to have to show them the best hand " on 24. Sep 2003 07:50 Grateful Rooster wrote: > In response to Poker God's last post (since the system won't let me extend the thread). The image is a > big part of Brunson's system, but he doesn't tighten up as you strategize. If you stop firing at pots, > players will notice the shift, and probably just be more defensive. Still, you'll be hard to place on a > hand and should get more calls on your larger bets and maybe be able to bluff small straights. High > risk-return strategy and somewhat requires players staying at the table to see the advertisement, I > think. > > Anyone play this way successfully in NL tourneys or SNGs? > > GR Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, noiseboy, 24. Sep 2003 09:56 | ||
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| Yes, 84s is pretty weak, usually I will draw the line for this type of play with a suited one-gapper like 75s. However, the 84s does have the deception value that if you flop hard to it, you can double or trip up because nobody is putting you on that. Also, it's the easiest thing in the world to get away from. Grant is right to bring up one of the most relevant and important questions in NL: "How deep is the money?" This can often make seemingly incorrect plays correct. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 20:49 | ||
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| please tell me how often u win with hands like that, please. on 24. Sep 2003 09:56 noiseboy wrote: > Yes, 84s is pretty weak, usually I will draw the line for this type of play with a suited > one-gapper like 75s. However, the 84s does have the deception value that if you flop hard to > it, you can double or trip up because nobody is putting you on that. Also, it's the easiest > thing in the world to get away from. Grant is right to bring up one of the most relevant and > important questions in NL: "How deep is the money?" This can often make seemingly incorrect > plays correct. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, noiseboy, 24. Sep 2003 10:09 | ||
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| One last thing I should mention, whenever they brand you the fish and start taunting you, don't try to convince them that you made a good play. The advertising value of pulling off such a play can be huge, as they won't be able to put you on a hand after that. Also, with them criticizing you in the chat, that will make other players that come to the table think you are a fish too, which is a boon in NL as you will get calls when you make big bets with a monster. It's all about getting paid off, and when you say "I'm not stupid, I had 15 outs twice" or such, it makes them smarten up to you. I will usually just say something like "I'm here to GAMBLE!" Or something that perpetuates the loose image. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 19:25 | ||
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| ha. havn't even looked at the other responses yet. BUT wow, bad call. horrible. i love people use words like"hope" and "lucky" in association with playing junk to a raise AND and 2 allins. hahah. but i would never tell u that in a game. never ever. what do i say?? "NICE HAND" stop playin like that dude on 22. Sep 2003 07:49 Poker God wrote: > playing .10-.25 NLH 2 off the button, 2 tight players limp in and i make a call > with 8d4d, the button makes it $2.50 to go and only the 2 limpers call, the > raiser is a pretty tight player and only bets top hands, i figure that i could > call on the chance that if i hit a lucky flop i can take down a big pot, im also > getting about 3.5-1 to call, so i do. flop comes down 10d-7h-6d giving me a > double belly and flush draw, first limper bets the pot and the second limp > folds, i just call hoping the button will raise. he does and pushes his stack > all in,which has me covered, the orginal bettor calls his stack off and i go > ahead and call getting about 3-1 on my call. they flip up A10o and KK, i spike a > 9 on the turn to take down and $120 pot and then get repromanded for the next > hour about how horrible a play it was. so im wondering, was it a bad play after > all? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, kimmi690, 27. Sep 2003 19:39 | ||
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| who in goodness name are you ...the mean poker fairy? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 20:43 | ||
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| thats not mean, i just have a sense of humor man. jees lol i like to joke a bit in my comments, just being honest... :) on 27. Sep 2003 19:39 kimmi690 wrote: > who in goodness name are you ...the mean poker fairy? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 20:48 | ||
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| ps. and calling the raise was the real problem. some of these people above talk all day about the outs he had on the flop, calling with that junk was just bad. but people love to rationalize their actions. like i won the pot, had outs/pot odds/implied odds/have a monster bankroll etc, so i did the right thing. gl with 8-4, its tha nuts! | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Schuster, 27. Sep 2003 21:35 | ||
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| I really think you aren't being open minded enough about this. If an opponent had $500 in front of him and I knew I could get it all out of him if I flopped hard, I'd definatly call his $5 preflop bet. If you think otherwise, I'd love to call your raises and win the rest of your chips when you think that 8-4-rag flop didn't hit anyone who decided to play against your overpair. Lee | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 21:45 | ||
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| naw. your right, i was just kidding. im new to this site. im sorry if i joke around. the funny part is if you are on the receiving end of that hand. is'nt that funny? i can be aggressive as the next guy but i just wouldnt want to be involved with that hand on a regular basis. would you? but i like your point. if he'll put the money in, then hmmm. but how often does KK and A10 get beat by 8-4? the KK dude misplayed that hand if anyone, let him in for 5 bucks. on 27. Sep 2003 21:35 Schuster wrote: > I really think you aren't being open minded enough about this. If an opponent had $500 in front of > him and I knew I could get it all out of him if I flopped hard, I'd definatly call his $5 preflop > bet. If you think otherwise, I'd love to call your raises and win the rest of your chips when you > think that 8-4-rag flop didn't hit anyone who decided to play against your overpair. > > Lee | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Schuster, 27. Sep 2003 22:15 | ||
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| > naw. your right, i was just kidding. > im new to this site. im sorry if i joke around. No problems with joking around at all! It's sometimes hard to tell though with just text, I just don't want anyone to read the wrong impression. > the funny part is if you are on the receiving end of that hand. is'nt that funny? The dedicated beginner would probably be going nuts with another "bad beat". The intermediate player would shrug it off as getting all the money in the long run. The expert player will look for reasons why his opponent would call that preflop bet and look for ways to prevent such an occurance in the future. > i can be aggressive as the next guy but i just wouldnt want to be involved with that hand on a regular basis. would you? Well heck no! Against most players, I wouldn't play. But if I know a player just won't release an overpair, and if the price is right, and the money is deep enough, then it's worth a shot. It's high variance, so your bankroll has to be enough, but if you can stand the swings, then it's +EV. > but i like your point. if he'll put the money in, then hmmm. but how often does KK and A10 get beat by 8-4? Off the top of my head, he's probably about a 5 to 1 dog preflop. But we all knew he was an underdog. The point is if you will win enough money when the few wins even out. You do have to be careful about this kind of thing though and overestimating your return on a good flop. If the board makes you trips and you push all in, do you really think that overpair will pay you off? Most won't. It's much better to hit 2 pair or super draw like he did. Your hand is more concealed, but also more vulnerable, so you have to add in the times where the KK redraws out on you, by either pairing the board in the 2 pair case, or your super draw not getting there. It's definately not an easy thing to figure out while you're sitting at the table, given all the factors, but can be very rewarding for the expert player. I'm still working on being able to confidently do things like this at the table. Lee | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 22:33 | ||
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| ok, lee. but i don't like your implication that im not an expert player. lol however, it IS funny, expert or not, when junk kicks ass. outs, blah blah blah, odds, blah blah, WHATEVA MON, 8-4 took down a monster pot. i would think other people find this amusing. of course all you folks are in that last category (wannbe expert like me) or else y'all wouldnt be here haggling over this and that, splitting hairs til brains hurt. thats why im here. wheres that adam the expert on this one?? lol on 27. Sep 2003 22:15 Schuster wrote: > > naw. your right, i was just kidding. > > im new to this site. im sorry if i joke around. > > No problems with joking around at all! It's sometimes hard to tell though with just text, I just don't want > anyone to read the wrong impression. > > > the funny part is if you are on the receiving end of that hand. is'nt that funny? > > The dedicated beginner would probably be going nuts with another "bad beat". The intermediate player would > shrug it off as getting all the money in the long run. The expert player will look for reasons why his > opponent would call that preflop bet and look for ways to prevent such an occurance in the future. > > > i can be aggressive as the next guy but i just wouldnt want to be involved with that hand on a regular > basis. would you? > > Well heck no! Against most players, I wouldn't play. But if I know a player just won't release an overpair, > and if the price is right, and the money is deep enough, then it's worth a shot. It's high variance, so your > bankroll has to be enough, but if you can stand the swings, then it's +EV. > > > but i like your point. if he'll put the money in, then hmmm. but how often does KK and A10 get beat by 8-4? > > > Off the top of my head, he's probably about a 5 to 1 dog preflop. But we all knew he was an underdog. The > point is if you will win enough money when the few wins even out. You do have to be careful about this kind > of thing though and overestimating your return on a good flop. If the board makes you trips and you push all > in, do you really think that overpair will pay you off? Most won't. It's much better to hit 2 pair or super > draw like he did. Your hand is more concealed, but also more vulnerable, so you have to add in the times > where the KK redraws out on you, by either pairing the board in the 2 pair case, or your super draw not > getting there. It's definately not an easy thing to figure out while you're sitting at the table, given all > the factors, but can be very rewarding for the expert player. I'm still working on being able to confidently > do things like this at the table. > > Lee > > | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Poker God, 27. Sep 2003 21:50 | ||
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| exactly my thinking schuster :-) i love playing people who only bet the top hands. i may lose many 19 out of 20 pots i play like that but all i need is the one win to make a big profit. winning the hand is not the point but playing it correctly after the initial call is. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 22:02 | ||
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| so if you lose 120 bucks a pot in no limit 18 times you show a profit? kool | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 22:04 | ||
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| alan goering is your god, poker god! on 27. Sep 2003 21:50 Poker God wrote: > exactly my thinking schuster :-) i love playing people who only bet the top hands. i may lose many 19 out > of 20 pots i play like that but all i need is the one win to make a big profit. winning the hand is not > the point but playing it correctly after the initial call is. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 22:14 | ||
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| and poker god, who the heck said anything about only betting "top" hands?? however, i agree with your last statement. on 27. Sep 2003 21:50 Poker God wrote: > exactly my thinking schuster :-) i love playing people who only bet the top hands. i may lose many 19 out > of 20 pots i play like that but all i need is the one win to make a big profit. winning the hand is not > the point but playing it correctly after the initial call is. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, kimmi690, 27. Sep 2003 22:21 | ||
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| Like I said before, are you the MEAN poker god? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 22:35 | ||
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| yes, of course. are you the nice poker god? if so you should cast me into hell for being an ass. then i could really have some fun as a poker devil. on 27. Sep 2003 22:21 kimmi690 wrote: > Like I said before, are you the MEAN poker god? | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, Poker God, 27. Sep 2003 23:18 | ||
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| cafferacer i dont think your really getting the point so i will see if i can explain my view to you.the play works in "knowing" the raiser behind me has some high pair. going into the hand knowing im an underdog and "wishing" for the good luck is not my goal. im looking for high expectation on the play. with the raiser and the 2 callers plus the dead money in the pot it is worthwhile to play the hand knowing that when i hit a hand i will get serious return for my money. when i make this call and the flop isnt favorable i will lay it down right there or see what can be done about making a play for the pot. if i make this call 20 times preflop for the $2.50 it costs me $50. if i make this hand 1 out of 21 times ill make about a $100 profit, making this a +EV play for me in the long run. meaning that im making money, about $5, everytime i make the "bad call" preflop.those are rough estimates but i think you get the idea. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 23:48 | ||
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| ok, poker god thanks for explaining it me. now im going to start making that play more often. | ||
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| Re: good play or to tired to think straight?, cafferacer, 27. Sep 2003 23:55 | ||
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| poker god, its not like i didnt read the posts. i get it. you made a great play, you won and its a great learning hand for all involved here at the forum. i should stop playing around so much. :) | ||
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