|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 12/2/2008 8:55:23 AM PACIFIC |
 Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 07:39 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I started playing low limit poker ($1-2) at a casino. I've been playing pretty tight, folding almost everything until I have a good hand preflop. Example: My hand: As Ks I raise preflop. Almost everyone at the table calls. Ok, so the flop comes: 3s Kd 4h I'll bet and almost everyone calls again. The turn: 3s Kd Kh 2h Ok great! I have three of kind. I bet again. Almost everyone calls. The river: 3s Kd Kh 2h 5d I bet again. Some people fold. Someone raises me. I reraise. They call. I show my 3-of-a-kind with an ace kicker. The guy that raised me has a straight : 4d 6s This guy should've folded before the flop! Or at least after he saw the flop was no good to him! Almost everytime I have a nice hand, someone else gets a miracle card on the turn or the river or both. I last for like 6 hours playing like this. Occasionally, I'll win a pot and get like $30 and break even. But eventually I end up losing all my money because these people don't fold and keep getting lucky! I would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how I could improve my strategy for low limit games like this. ---------- One more thing: the first hand I ever got at this casino was 33. I folded preflop because two people raised. Guess what shows up the flop? X33 I would've had four of a kind and won like $50 or more on that one hand. Is low limit hold'em just pure luck!?? When I play poker at home with some friends who value their dollar a little more I usually end up winning like $5 when we play $0.10-0.20 limit. I also do pretty well online in play money tournaments. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, Mark Barnett II, 22. Sep 2003 09:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| the painful answer to your question is yes they are very luck oriented HOWEVER as Mike Caro says you are paid to make correct decisions regardless of who wins the pot. keep playing tight/aggressive and you will see your rewards *assuming you have the bankroll to live through the massive swings* if noone ever drew out then poker would die as a game cause the people with less skill would always lose and give up. basic advice, put a note on the player who out drew you that they played with you with a gut shot draw for several bets *but pay close attention to this guy for a bit to make sure he does it at least one more time cause its possible he decided to take a random shot to throw someone on tilt* | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, jaustin, 22. Sep 2003 09:27 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Low limit will be the most luck oriented and have the biggest swings. People will chase almost anything and often someone will get there. Just make sure you make them pay to chase their hands so when they miss you'll take down a big pot. Stay tight, stay aggressive and you'll come out a winner over time. Also, one session is meaningless. The difference between a winning and losing session is often one big pot. So one less bad beat and you're going home a winner rather than a loser. However, if you've lost all your money on more than a couple sessions in a row, you should probably evaluate your play for leaks. A lot of players suffer from selective memory and only remember the bad beats they take and blame their losses on these while ignore all the bad plays they're making that are really costing them their money. Not saying this is true in your case, but it never hurts to evaluate your play. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 10:10 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You made a good point with the selective memory. Now that I think of it I did win several big pots. The only problem is I keep breaking even, until I lose to someone who gets their magic river card. This is typically what happens: I start with $40... and lose about $20 to $30 in an hour... and then win a $20-$40 pot so I'm $10 up (but usually breaking even)... same thing happens the next hour. But I really depend on at least one big pot per hour to make my money back (and hopefully more). So when I lose that pot to a miracle card, I probably won't win another big pot for a while, so I lose a lot of chips. Another problem is that many of the hands that I fold preflop would actually turn out to be winning hands. The problem is I fold them because it appears that someone else has a much better hand preflop. Imagine my dissapointment when I fold J3 because someone someone raises before the flop, and 34JT8 shows up on the table, and someone with 3T wins it. Do you think I should be playing more hands and seeing more flops? OR do you think I should play even tighter so that I don't lose those $20 every hour. This way if I lose that big pot when I have a pocket pair of Aces I will still have a lot of chips left. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, Jav, 22. Sep 2003 10:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You absolutely should not play more hands. You shouldn't even consider playing J,3; even if the flop is J,J,3 you should be happy you folded it. The key to winning poker over a long period of time is only playing hands that have a higher than average chance to win the pot. You don't want to gamble on inferior holdings. Yes, you may get lucky with them occasionally, but not frequently enough to pay for the losses you will accrue with them. I would suggest reading Lee Jones low limit hold'em book. It will give you a solid basis for starting hands and strategy to beat tables like that. In my opinion the most important thing about wild tables with lots of people chasing low probability hands is to only play premium hands. There are so many people that will pay you off when you do hit a hand, that you can be very selective about what hands you can play. Patience will get you the money over time. Good luck! | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, jaustin, 22. Sep 2003 10:37 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It does suck when you fold a hand that would have won, but you have to keep doing it. Again you only remember when your J3 would have won and forget about the other 20 times it would have lost. Keep folding them. It's tempting to play trash when you see everyone else winning with it but over time it'll cost you big money. Without knowing for sure, playing tighter may help you. One big pot an hour is about right, so perhaps you're costing yourself too much money by playing mediocre hands in between your big pots. If it's a really loose and wild game, playing only the top hands (AA-88, AK, AQs) if a good way to go. As you get more comfortable you can add in some lesser hands from late position. Also, there are some great books out there on playing low-limit hold 'em. I suggest you grab one and read up on it before your next trip. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Getting up, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 10:50 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks for all the help!! One more question if you don't mind. I read that it's good to get up and take a walk or something after a bad beat where the other guy gets really lucky (to prevent yourself from playing on tilt). Should I do this immediately after that hand? Or wait until i'm in an early position? Also what happens if I get up and miss the blinds? When someone else misses them the dealer puts a "missed blind" thing in front of their chips. Does this mean they have to pay the dealer the small and big blinds when he gets back? Or do they just have to put in a small bet when they return? (I've never left the table before...) What position is the best time to get up and walk around? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Getting up, jaustin, 22. Sep 2003 11:03 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It depends completely on you. If you go on tilt immediately, then take a break right after. If you have decent control over yourself but are too steaming to play your A game, then wait till it's your turn to be the blind and take a break - no sense in wasting free hands. In this case, I wouldn't play anything other than a true premium hand while waiting for the blind. When you return you will have the blind button. You can either wait till the blind comes around to you and play as usuall or you have the option to post both a big blind and a dead small blind which goes in the pot - IMO it's best to wait for the BB rather than post. [This is in response to your lower post] Never tell someone how bad of a call they made. You want them to keep making calls when they have 2 outs. It hurts when they hit, but again, over time it's from these bad calls that you make your money. If everyone played well the only winner would be the house. Tell him good hand and pray he stay at the table long enough for you to win back your money. It sounds to me that he was just a "gambler" who got lucky. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Getting up, Jav, 22. Sep 2003 13:19 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Playing when you are upset can be a huge money leak. Understanding when you are upset and likely to not play your best is a very important part of poker. Even a short time on tilt can take what would have been a profitable night into a big money loser. So if you feel upset over a hand I think it's best to go take a walk immediately. If you miss your blind then you can either buy back in, or wait for the big blind again (depends on the casino). But this is going to be a small amount of money compared to what can happen if you play when you aren't at your best. Remember, for someone to put a bad beat on you they have to be making bad decisions; which is good for you in general. Go walk off that one hand and come back when you are ready to beat them playing solid poker. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, Flatout_Mainiac, 22. Sep 2003 09:38 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I might not be the best guy to give advice on this because last night within 3 orbits I lost AA to 23, KK to 23 (same guy cold called my preflop raise from the SB) and AA to 92.... But, (taking some earlier advice I got) with that many people in the pot you have to be wary of possible draw hands out there that will beat you. If the board looks like is it can make any sort of draw, and in this case it does, you would want to slow down the betting because there is a good chance you are beat. Also with the 2 Kings out there a little pocket pair could be slowplaying (incorrectly or not) a full house. I would have probably check called the river here. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 10:27 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Let me add another story to this... When I played yesterday, there was this old guy at the table who didn't really respect my raises (because of my age..I'm 18). He would reraise me every time I raised. I guess he thought I was bluffing? The thing is had just been playing for a few hands while I had been there all day, and he didn't know that I was only playing good hands. So while everyone else folded, he would raise and reraise me. I knew I had the best hand and he was making a big mistake. And then guess what happens? He beats me in the river!! This happens twice!! I even told him after he won "You know you had a 4% chance of getting that card on the river to complete your straight?" I had two pairs and a flush draw. Hopefully this would at least get him to realize that I'm not playing any crap I get and that he got lucky this time. I figured this would think twice before reraising me again like that. But no! It happens again after only two hands!! I have the best hand on the turn and flush draw again... and this guy raises me again.. and AGAIN he gets lucky on the river. (Do I have bad luck or what?) My question is this: When I am in a situation like this again, where I KNOW the guy is going to raise me no matter what because he is stubborn, should I play the odds and keep reraising him to increase the pot? OR should I just call so I don't lose all that money in case he gets lucky again? (I know raising makes so much more sense.. but I also want to have some money left to keep playing if I lose...) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, Flatout_Mainiac, 22. Sep 2003 11:01 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Right or wrong he might have a read on your play. Have you thought of other reasons why one player would play differently against you then he would normally play against others at the table besides your age? He may have noticed that you overplay hands and that by isolating you he has a better chance of you paying him off. To answer you question, it is generally not prudent reraise and cap with hands that should not be reraised and capped with. Even maniacs gat a hand once in awhile, there is no need to give them extra chips when they do. With oppenents like these they will bet the hand for you so you will be getting a fair price for your hand it you win it. When you do have the nuts this is when you can take him for all he'll give you. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 11:29 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I seriously doubt he had a read on my play. I don't even think he saw any of my hands before that (since he just got there and I was folding before the flop most of the time). This guy appeared to be there just to have some fun (like almost everyone else at the table). He wasn't really paying any attention to how anyone was playing. I think next time I'll start off with more chips and play even tighter, but get really aggresive when I have the best hand and odds. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, Schuster, 22. Sep 2003 11:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| My first tip is never ever educate the players at your table. Why would you want someone to play better? If you can't beat the bad players, then you won't be able to beat the good players. Lee | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 13:13 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Good point... I think I was just a little frustrated that everyone was getting lucky on the river, especially especially after losing a few big pots like that. If I keep improving my low limit game I'm sure I'll end up winning in the long run. I couldn't believe the attitude of some of the people playing. The lady next to me would play any hand. She would even show me her cards when I folded before the flop. She would tell me that i'm playing "too afraid" and that I should play more hands or I'll never win. And I'm nodding and saying "yeah.. uhuh.." while ignoring her "advice." The guy next to her kept saying how "you never know" until you see the flop, so you should always see the flop. Almost the entire table was hemorrhaging bad poker tips (as well as chips). | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 13:44 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| So...what the heck are you doing posting here? You should STILL BE AT THAT GREAT TABLE OF IDIOTS TAKING THEIR MONEY!!!! (j/k). Seriously though, if and when you find a table like that, play longer than you had planned because profit opportunities like that don't come up too often. Steve | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, HMbroken, 22. Sep 2003 13:59 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yeah I would have stayed, but I didn't have any more cash with me and it was getting really late. I'm pretty sure I can find the same type of people if I go to the casino around the same time next week. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Low Limit Hold'em miracle cards, PairTheBoard, 22. Sep 2003 13:33 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| The day will come when everything goes right for you. You will get an abundance of premium starting hands that the flop will hit and a few even improve on the turn and river. Your oponents will miss draw after draw and you will go home with a 50-100 Big Bet Win feeling like a genius. However, the true test is whether you can continue to play your best game on the type of day you describe. If you can you will be a winner. If not, you will be marginal at best. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|