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Server Time: 12/2/2008 8:51:31 AM PACIFIC |
 Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, Eric, 20. Sep 2003 15:53 | ||
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| Hello everyone, how shall I start this.... well a few days ago I had $100 in my account at UB ($100 is alot for me). I sat down at a .50/$1 no limit table and a .25/.50 no limit table. At the .25/.50 no limit table i got dealt AcKc a few hands in. I raised preflop $3 and got 2 callers. The flop came Ks 8c 10c, not bad... not bad at all, I go all-in for $20+ dollars and get one caller. The turn is a Js and the river is a 7h. He flips his K J off suit and takes down the pot busting me out of the table. Meanwhile at the.50/$1 no limit table I get dealth 10 10 on the BB, everyone has folded except 2 players and the action is on me. I raise $1 and they both call. Flop comes 9h 10c 8h. I bet $5 and one guy folds and the other guy re-raises $15. I re-raise all-in, about $75, and he calls! What could this guy have! Turn is a Q, river is a K. He flips KK and takes down the huge pot leaving me in shock. What a suck out! Not to mention he slow played his KK preflop and called my all-in. The next day on UB I deposit another $100, vowing to quit if I lose it. I sit at a .50/$1 no limit and a .25/.50 no limit again. At the .50/$1 table I get dealt J 8 and call with no preflop raises. Flop comes 10 A 9. I have an open ended straight draw with 2 other players seeing the flop. I raise $2 and they both call. Turn is a 7, giving me the nuts *for the moment*, I raise $10 and get re-raised all-in by both players. Without hesitation I call. The pot is $150+. The river is a 10, pairing the board. I flip my straight, other guy has 2 pair, and the winner has AA for the full house. Feeling sick I turned to my .25/.50 table where I am dealt Q10s and raise $1 preflop, with 1 other guy seeing the flop. The flop comes 9 9 Q. I bet $5 and he calls. Turn is a 9, I have a full house and bet $15 putting me all-in, he quickly calls (which scares me) and the river is a random card. I flip my full house and he shows 9 2 off suit, for four nines. He called a prelfop raise with 9 2 off suit. I am completly disgusted at this point and i swear the guy out. With no money in my account I take the UB points I have earned and play a 100pt sit n go. I get dealth 10 Js and the flop comes A Q K. I go all-in and two other guys call. The turn is a 7 and the river is a K. A guy with A K takes down the pot. So I leave UB with my account at 0 dollars, my points at 0, and my liking for the game of poker and ultimate bet in the negatives. In a blind rage I delete ultimate bet and all of its componants, i delete ultimate buddy, and I vow to never EVER play online poker again! *extra*- that day at UB I saw 2 flops of Q Q Q, one of A A A, and a few boards like A K K K Q. In all my days of playing poker in casinos and home games I have NEVER seen a flop of AAA or QQQ. This happened 3 times on UB! I know people say it isnt rigged and I agree. But that dosnt mean the computer generator can have un-intentional errors and deal the same cards twice, or a wierd flop twice, and other scenarios. I just dont trust online poker anymore. -KemKings | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, shorn, 22. Sep 2003 06:09 | ||
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| Eric- Don't mean to be a jerk or anything, but the hands that you described don't seem to be that out of the oridinary. Except for the 92o hand, the folks that called or put you all in had either overpairs or legitimate draws to beat you. In fact, no one even had to hit two perfect cards to win. I guess my point is that you easily could experience the same type of run in a B&M. I know online can get very frustrating if you are in the middle of a run like this because you are playing twice as many hands. My advice to you is to take a month off and then maybe give it another shot. Steve | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, McMonkey, 22. Sep 2003 06:57 | ||
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| With the assumption that this site is about learning from mistakes I'm going to respond. First I'll say that I do feel some of your pain and a bad weekend is a bad weekend and sometimes it seems that bad beats come in rushes..when it rains it pours. That said I think some (if not most) of these bad beats could have been avoided/lessened. >At the .25/.50 no limit table i got dealt > AcKc a few hands in. I raised preflop $3 and got 2 callers. The flop came Ks 8c > 10c, not bad... not bad at all, I go all-in for $20+ dollars and get one caller. While I agree that the flop wasn't bad for you, going all-in here is just crazy. Bottom line is all you have is top pair and a flush draw. Certainly bet, but I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't go all-in without the absolute nuts (or very close to it). A pot sized raise, or even a little less would be enough to build the pot and possibly chase out any draws. At such low limits an all-in is not big enough to chase anybody else away who wouldn't fold to a pot sized raise. > The turn is a Js and the river is a 7h. He flips his K J off suit and takes down > the pot busting me out of the table. When the J came I would've gotten nervous and the 7 also, now there are 2 straight draws and no flush and you still only have top pair, but because you're all-in theres nothing you can do, hindsight is 20/20 but this just illustrates that top pair and a draw is not nearly strong enough to risk all of your chips on. Meanwhile at the.50/$1 no limit table I get > dealth 10 10 on the BB, everyone has folded except 2 players and the action is > on me. I raise $1 and they both call. Flop comes 9h 10c 8h. I bet $5 and one guy > folds and the other guy re-raises $15. I re-raise all-in, about $75, and he > calls! What could this guy have! Ok, granted a set on the flop is pretty strong, but when he re-raises you that big with that board you have to start questioning the strength of your hand. JQ is a very playable hand, and at these limits I wouldn't be surprised to see someone raise big with AK or AQ suited (the second of which has a gutshot straight and a flush draw). I would be very worried and might call, but re-raising all-in is just suicidal. >Turn is a Q, river is a K. He flips KK and > takes down the huge pot leaving me in shock. What a suck out! Not to mention he > slow played his KK preflop and called my all-in. Ok, so this guy was stupid to call the all-in, but with 8 9 10 Q K even a lone J would beat you. Another very scary board and yet again you could do nothing about it because you put yourself all-in. Maybe I'm just a little tighter than most, but I like giving myself an opportunity to get away from a hand, especially at the super loose low-limit tables. > The next day on UB I deposit another $100, vowing to quit if I > lose it. I sit at a .50/$1 no limit and a .25/.50 no limit again. At the .50/$1 > table I get dealt J 8 and call with no preflop raises. Calling with J 8 is bad news to begin with. Even suited this hand is not very strong, you're basically hoping for a double gutshot. Not very good odds on catching that. >Flop comes 10 A 9. I > have an open ended straight draw with 2 other players seeing the flop. I raise > $2 and they both call. So you got very lucky here, but still only have J high on a A high board. Not a good candidate for a raise. Plus what were the suits, with a 2 suited board you're not only behind already, even if you do improve you might get beat by a flush, which, depending on the board, might drop your number of outs from 8 to 6. Turn is a 7, giving me the nuts *for the moment*, I raise > $10 and get re-raised all-in by both players. Without hesitation I call. The pot > is $150+. The river is a 10, pairing the board. I flip my straight, other guy > has 2 pair, and the winner has AA for the full house. Feeling sick Ok, from this point on you rightfully expected to win (depending on the suits on the board). But how can you feel sick about the AA player calling? Isn' that what you did the day before (calling/overplaying with a moderately strong set) And to his defense, it's very hard to put someone on hand of J-8. But the bottom line is you got unlucky from the turn on. > I turned to > my .25/.50 table where I am dealt Q10s and raise $1 preflop, with 1 other guy > seeing the flop. Again this hand is not very strong, even catching the flush you have 2 cards that can beat you, this is a marginal hand that I don't think is worth a raise (certainly not to 3x the big blind) >The flop comes 9 9 Q. I bet $5 and he calls. Now, here's something I can relate to because I do it way too often too. Betting into a paired flop holding the non-paired card. What I'm finding, though, is that this is a very bad place to bet, especially big. Here's how I see it (after making this mistake far too many times): -you're out of position so if he calls you're going to have to be careful the rest of the hand and you still have no idea what he has -if he doesn't have a 9 and is willing to fold, he'll probably fold to either a small or big bet -if he does have a 9 you're beat pretty bad, he's gonna call anything, and have almost no hope of winning the hand >Turn is a 9, I > have a full house and bet $15 putting me all-in, he quickly calls (which scares > me) And rightfully so, this is the same situation as before, not only does the 9 beat you now, though, but KK or AA does as well. or if he's holding a K or A if the river comes with either of those... you get the point, this is like the flop, you have no idea what he has, there's a scary board and you're betting into him, he must have been salivating. >and the river is a random card. I flip my full house and he shows 9 2 off > suit, for four nines. He called a prelfop raise with 9 2 off suit. I am > completly disgusted at this point Ok, not a hand I would have called with pre-flop but once that flop hit he had every reason to be in the hand and betting it hard. He practically beat you over the head with the fact that he had the 9. >and i swear the guy out. What's this about? No matter how bad a beat is, there's no excuse for swearing out another player. >With no money in my > account I take the UB points I have earned and play a 100pt sit n go. I get > dealth 10 Js and the flop comes A Q K. I go all-in and two other guys call. The > turn is a 7 and the river is a K. A guy with A K takes down the pot. Now, assuming that the board was not suited, this is a legit bad beat. You flopped the nuts, got you're money in and got a caller who caught a miracle card on the river to beat you. That sucks. It seems to me that the biggest leak you have right now is overbetting your hands. If you ever decide to play poker again (be it online or a a B&M) I would suggest playing limit for a while and only going back to no-limit when you have sufficient bankroll to handle the swings and when you can beat the limit you're at consistently. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *extra* I didn't see this end bit at first, but now that I have I'll respond to this too. Here ends the constructive criticism portion of the post and begins the pet peeve response. > I know people say > it isnt rigged and I agree. But that dosnt mean the computer >generator can have > un-intentional errors and deal the same cards twice, or a wierd flop twice, and > other scenarios. I just dont trust online poker anymore. > Now this is a bit of a stretch. If you want a conspiracy theory, here's one for you: why is it that just about every accusation (direct or roundabout) of online poker being rigged comes in a post that details a bad beat (or 2 or 3...). Is that a coincidence? Did you get unlucky? a little bit Did people play cards they shouldn't have and get lucky? Yes, but that's standard for LL Did you play mistake free poker and get taken unfairly by UB or its software? Absolutely not | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, Eman, 22. Sep 2003 07:21 | ||
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| Excellent reply McMonkey. I though the same thing while reading Eric's post. I though only one was a bad beat. All the others were typical games. Eric just misplayed his "not so powerful" hands. Some strategies I like to use in NL: 1) Only go Allin if you have the nuts, or close to it, or If you positively know you have the other beat. 2) Dont be the one calling an all-in bet, rather; be the one to push your allin bet. Put the pressure on the other players. 3) Play tight and not too aggresive. (I find a lot of players online will be more likely to call big allin bets on a draw. It seems like players online (especially and the NL cash game) love tto gamble. They do not care about odds and implied odds. If they see a huge bet and they have a straight or flush draw that will win the pot. They play even if the pot odds are not even close to warrant a call. | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, Pedro, 22. Sep 2003 07:55 | ||
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| I have to agree. You are not going to get the flush draws out in the online poker. Most of them don't care about losing there money. They are there for fun and action. Once you understand this you will be a better player. I rarely go all in no limit. Cause when i have the nuts I want people betting and calling. When I don't i dont want to risk all my money. The truth is your going ot get the weak hands out with any type of bet and the strong hands are calling any bet you make if not raising. If you want to make money you really dohave to grind it out and its really a tough job. Also I have seized to pplay no limit online ofr a few reasons. You can not tell when players ar bluffings!!!! I mean sometimes its obvious, but I mean in general you can't see them. There is no way you can tell what the other player is thinking or doing. I may have been raised out of a lot of pots that I would of won, but I will never give the other player all my money with an inferior hand. Also about your bad beats. I wouldn't consider them bad beats. You saw 3 9's out there. You decided to bet it heavily. The least you can do is put him on a queen also. In that case your giving money to the house. With your outrageous bets. The 3 tens lets face it there was a nut straight out there. So the king king guys was retarded and got lucky. Your bet was still not justified. There is a straight out there. What you don't understand is that a 3 dollar bet is going ot do the same as a 20 bet. Get the weak guys out keep the strong guys in. Do you really want the weak guys out ? The only hand I would consider a bad beat is the j10 straight. But the ak should be calling. That's a realistic bad beat. It happens. The fact of the matter is you shouldn't of bet the j8, you shouldnt of been in the hand. AA slow played and got lucky that he caught the pair but I defineately would of called with AA. Another thing you need to understand is that this is gambling. As much skill there is in poker there is a big luck factor in short term. You will get bad beats it happens. There will be days that everything isd going right and days that everything is going wrong. The key is know when to stop. When your anger affects your judgement stop. Also if your getting this angry over cards I suggest you stop also. I mean I play for fun and to make money. I don't mind losing though sure I'll get pist when a 27 beats my ace king but i realize that over time the 27 that just beat me will lose to me 90% of the time or some number liek that. In other words let the bad player keep playing his crap cards. You'll win over time. You need to tighten up your game a lot of those hands I wouldn't of been in to lose. It's okay to once in a while to play a hand out of your requirements. But dont do it all the time. Like I play 35 suited frequently only cause its my lucky hand (superstitious). Actually I play it to throw off my opponets. But I don't play it all the time only in late position and when no one has raised. | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, cafferacer, 26. Sep 2003 23:28 | ||
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| monkey dude, liked yer comments but must take issue with only going all in with the absolute nuts. are you kidding? no limit is not about having the nuts and i would hope that you would know that considering your other thoughful comments. this is very key. maybe this dude shouldnt allin reraise in this situation or with his level of skill, but u play the near nut and nut only and i wont be seeing yer butt on the final table........................................................(as often as me)))) | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, Palinya, 29. Sep 2003 14:53 | ||
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| I think this is assuming it's tournament play. On a regular NL table where you have all the time in the world, I think you can wait for the nuts | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, McMonkey, 30. Sep 2003 06:42 | ||
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| As Palinya said I was assuming a NL ring game. I agree with you whole heartedly about tournament play, you need to be able to take the chance when you have the best of it, but if you're going to play a ring game you have time to wait, and at such low limits an all-in isn't any different than a pot-sized or even 3-4x BBbet in the eyes of most of your competition. Besides, as you can see again by his newest post, I think Eric's main problem is overbetting. If this is the case, I think a change to limit is in order, or if that is not possible/desired at the very least erring on the side of caution will certainly allow him to keep his money a little longer. on 26. Sep 2003 23:28 cafferacer wrote: > monkey dude, liked yer comments but must take issue with only going all in with the > absolute nuts. are you kidding? no limit is not about having the nuts and i would hope > that you would know that considering your other thoughful comments. this is very key. > maybe this dude shouldnt allin reraise in this situation or with his level of skill, but u > play the near nut and nut only and i wont be seeing yer butt on the final > table........................................................(as often as me)))) | ||
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| Re: Unbelievable Series of BAD BEATS- Quiting Online Poker, noiseboy, 23. Oct 2003 16:17 | ||
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| I had a string of those too, at UB. The problem is that people who are willing to put all their chips on a longshot will bust you from time to time. Anyway, these are some really terrible players, you can make tons of money from them, but when you are running bad they will eat you alive, since they are basically kamikaze pilots willing to go all-in with just about anything. | ||
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