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Server Time: 12/2/2008 9:21:42 AM PACIFIC |
 A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, Mark Gregorich, 18. Sep 2003 23:22 | ||
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| Upon arriving at Bellagio today around noonish, I noticed a 6 handed $60-120 hold'em game going in which it was obvious that most of the participants had been playing far too long (that's generally the only way this game is going at noon). So, I bought chips and eagerly took a seat. The game stayed great until about 8 pm, even though most of the all-nighters quit. I quit at 8 when the last couple of weak players left the game and were replaced by a couple of very tough local pros. I lost $980 for the session, but I think I should have lost a lot more. I didn't win a lot of pots, but I won more than I should have on these hands, thanks to some poor play from my opponents. I want to highlight some of these plays, in the hopes that those of you who managed to wade through this entire paragraph won't make them. Hand A: Early in the session, I reraise an extremely loose player. I have KK, and the flop comes 56T rainbow. He checkraises me and I make it 3 bets. He checks and calls when a 3 comes, then leads the river when another 3 comes. I raise, and he calls me immediately. I show my kings, he flips up AJ and says "nice hand." Yep, this is $60-120 folks. And nope, I didn't beat the game today. Hand B: A few hours later (unfortunately my friend from the previous hand has moved on), a loose aggressive woman raises in late position. I make it 3 bets with AQ off from the small blind, and we are heads up. I make this raise so I can eliminate the big blind and play against only one opponent, who may likely have an ace as well with an inferior kicker. The flop is 368. I bet and get called (I feel I still have the best hand). The turn is a 7, and I bet again. She calls again. I still feel I have the best hand, as I think she would likely put me on just a big ace and raise if she had a pair (I feel this way because I've been watching her play closely the past couple of hours.) The river is a jack. Now, I check, as I don't think she'll call me with a worse hand than AQ high on the river. She fires immediately, and I pretend to think for awhile. I finally call, and she utters the always beautiful phrase "I missed." It was actually an easy call for me. Based on my read of her (which could be wrong of course; after all, I'm no Phil Hellmuth), I decided that the only pair she could really show me would be a jack on the river. If she had it, she had it, but I wasn't risking the pot to try and save 1 bet here. Hand C: The sequel. The next round, I'm in the big blind with A5 offsuit. The lady limps in late position, the small blind calls, and I check (I think I have the best hand here, but I don't feel a raise is proper - I want to see the flop and decide where I stand, and feel I can checkraise the lady if I hit, plus there is a bit of deception value to my hand - holding an ace in an unraised pot) The flop comes AK2 with 2 hearts (I'm heartless). As I planned, both blinds check (the SB knew how she played too, and would play accordingly), and she fires. The SB folds, and I raise. She 3 bets. I smell a "free card" attempt here, so I make it 4 bets. She calls. The turn is a ten. I bet and she calls. The river is a queen. Not my best card, but I'm still not convinced I'm beat. However, I don't feel betting for value is a good idea, as she almost has to have me beat to call me. In fact, I feel it is far more likely that I could make $120 on the river by checking to induce a bluff, than by betting and getting called by an inferior hand. I have no intention of folding (saner players could bluff me out in this spot every time!) So, I check. She bets, I call, and she offers the familiar refrain "I missed." I managed to win $540 from her with A5 offsuit, and a board of AK2TQ. Hand D: A few players are walking, and we are 6 handed. Two players fold, and I raise with 22 (a marginal play). The button, a tourist I've never played with, but who has amassed a huge stack of chips, calls. The lady calls from the small blind. We are threehanded, and the flop comes JT3, with 2 spades (I have red deuces). I'm done with it. This flop is too likely to have hit one or both of them (JT are key cards in hold'em, as they either pair up or give reasonably draws to a huge number of commonly played hands). The lady checks, so do I, and so does the button. Naturally, the turn is the 2 of clubs. She bets out, I raise, and surprisingly the button cold calls (what the heck could he call a raise with here that he couldn't bet the flop with in last position? I'm confused). The river is an ace. I bet, and get called only by the button. He shows A4 of spades. Now, how bad does his check on the flop look! Sure, he got unlucky that the wrong deuce came, but he cost himself the pot by checking. A few reasons why I would have bet his hand: I'm holding the nut flush draw with 2 cards to come; I may win the pot immediately with a bet; I may get a better ace to fold and win the pot if an ace comes; I can take control of the pot by being aggressive; I can probably get a free river card if the turn isn't to my liking; and I can avoid losing when some idiot hits his tiny set on the turn. After the hand, another player remarked that they were sure I had 3 jacks. Well, I would virtually never check that hand on the flop - this board is definitely not one conducive to slow playing. In conclusion, the point of these hands is to show the importance of playing poker with players who make mistakes. Had these same hands been held by better players, I would have won only a fraction of the amount I did. Game selection is huge!!! So, why did I have a losing session? If I have the energy, maybe I'll post about it in the "Bad Beats" section. Thanks for reading, Mark | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, Nathaniel Brous, 18. Sep 2003 23:40 | ||
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| on 18. Sep 2003 23:22 Mark Gregorich wrote:<snip> > Thanks for reading, Mark No...thanks for the writing. BTW How long ago did you do this interview? http://www.pokerplus.com/igregorich.htm Just curious. - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, Mark Gregorich, 19. Sep 2003 10:25 | ||
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| I think it was in 1997 Mark | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, Mark, 19. Sep 2003 00:37 | ||
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| Wow, what a game sounds like some of the players in my $5-10 online game, but obviously are not. How can players make such poor plays at such a high limit? I don't like playing in a $5-10 game if i can't read my opponents. How does someone who doesn't use solid stradegy amass a bankroll big enough to play loose in a $60-120 game? If they built it by playing, who were they playing agianst? I won't be able to sleep now Mark | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, 4 POKER, 19. Sep 2003 01:09 | ||
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| on 19. Sep 2003 00:37 Mark wrote: > Wow, > > what a game > > sounds like some of the players in my $5-10 online game, but obviously are not. How > can players make such poor plays at such a high limit? I don't like playing in a > $5-10 game if i can't read my opponents. > > How does someone who doesn't use solid stradegy amass a bankroll big enough to play > loose in a $60-120 game? If they built it by playing, who were they playing agianst? > > > I won't be able to sleep now > > Mark Mark, There are alot of people who play high limit poker who are just there for recreational purposes but they "like" to play with the 'big boys'. Celine Dion's husband (for example), plays $400-800 at Bellagio when ever he's in town. He's not a great player- (I've heard that from some of the guys in which I do respect in poker).....but he plays there....anyway. He's a gambler, and he has all the money in the world to take 'shots' with, too.(well, with a little help from his wife of course)! He could lose thousands and thousands of dollars in one session, and never say "boo"!......doesn't flinch, doesn't throw cards, doesn't do 'anything' at all but sit there, and play poker. It's fun for him....he enjoys the game....and he 'likes' being part of the action; as long as it's BIG. You'll also find many rich doctors, lawyers, etc., etc. who will also play big limit poker because that's where they want to "be". They can afford to be there. (of course, not on a daily basis, unless they had a s***load of cash and a helluvalot of skill.....but you know what I mean). So don't get the impression that everyone who plays high limit poker is a tough pro, because that is not the case at all! But you will find that the really smart and skillful pros (like Mark G), who 'do' have the cash-flow, to capitalize on such situations. And man, is game selection key, then! You won't always win, as such the case this time that Mark G pointed out....but he also pointed out, that if his opponents didn't make these crucial mistakes, that his loss would have even been bigger. So in essence, he actually made money ....when you really think about it. (The "big picture"). Now....there's also the flip side to this. There 'are' pros who play at higher limits who are 'not' world class players, but *still* manage to beat these games because their opposition is still much, much weaker then they are. That's why it's so important to play against weaker players than yourself.......no matter what the limit may be. If you can afford to be there....you'll make money. Now go to sleep! 4P- | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, mkpoker, 19. Sep 2003 13:03 | ||
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| Sounds like a heck of a game. I take a few key lessons from your stories. 1. Just because the stakes are higher doesn't mean the players are better (as has been noted). That's important for us low-limit players to remember as we move up. 2. You've got to trust yourself. In hand 3, Mark figured he had the best hand with A5o and a board of AK3. That's a pretty gutsy read considering the kicker weakness. But because he had confidence in his read, he had the gumption to cap the flop...which turned out to be the right play. Too often, I'll figure that I'm ahead, but then I'll get cold feet when it comes to betting/raising. Moral: if you think you've got the best hand, play like you've got the best hand. 3. Sometimes, you're gonna lose. Here we had a great player, playing in a good game against less skilled opponents...and he walked away poorer. We all know it happens, but it provides some solace for the rest of us when we walk away losers, even when we're confident we played well. Sometimes, the cards just don't cooperate with our big plans! Anyway, thanks for the good stories, Mark. | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, Nathaniel Brous, 19. Sep 2003 14:29 | ||
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| on 19. Sep 2003 13:03 mkpoker wrote: > Sounds like a heck of a game. I take a few key lessons from your stories. 1. Just because the stakes are higher doesn't mean the players are better (as has been noted). That's important for us low-limit players to remember as we move up. <snip> Hey mkpoker, I have to disagree with number 1. on your list (at least the way you present it.) I believe that because the stakes are higher does (in general) mean the players are better, just not ALL of them. The reasons for that ....at a certain point you find people who are playing for a living, and the successful ones will take it very seriously. The other...most of these people you encounter have already put their time in at lower limits and they are the ones who were able to make the transition. Your comment brought to mind an old post by Abdul Jalib about the layers of poker society. I googled, found and pasted the link below. You may find it interesting. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=layers+of+poker+society+group:rec.gambling.poker+group:rec.gambling.poker+group:rec.gambling.poker+group:rec.gambling.poker&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=rec.gambling.poker&selm=yeru2j1bkic.fsf%40shell9.ba.best.com&rnum=1 - Nathaniel Brous | ||
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| Re: A recap of my day in $60-120 hold'em- lengthy, Urban Chaos, 21. Sep 2003 04:34 | ||
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| Thanks for that link. That was really interesting to read and gain perspective about the limits. I play $6-12 and it's great to see what the perspective is, since I want to move up to $10-20 in the next few months. (though the bankroll issue, even as a part-timer, is something I've got to keep in mind.) -Urban "If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you. " | ||
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