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Server Time: 12/2/2008 10:19:55 AM PACIFIC |
 Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Andrew W, 18. Sep 2003 19:17 | ||
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| I tried an actual bluff, based on my read of the situation. Tell me whether I was just plahying the slots here, or actually made a move of a player.... Hand #432424-1430 at Paarl ($.50/$1 Hold'em) Powered by UltimateBet Started at 18/Sep/03 21:56:36 I'm revlovejoy........ phdjt posts the small blind of $.25. revlovejoy posts the big blind of $.50. revlovejoy: Ac 3d Pre-flop: snodgrass252 folds. Xtrmskier calls. catastrophe folds. Jim88 calls. dub178 folds. BlueMarquis folds. garybeach folds. phdjt folds. revlovejoy checks. Flop (board: Kd 8c 3s): revlovejoy bets $.50. Xtrmskier folds. Jim88 calls. OK - here I figure he's on top pair. I bet out to gain info, and that's the info I assumed I got. I've also noted him as a solid player. Nothing special I've noticed, just smarter than the average low limit person, and capable of laydowns..... Turn (board: Kd 8c 3s 7d): revlovejoy checks. Jim88 bets $1. revlovejoy calls. Now I'm sure he's on top pair, but figures me for middle pair. At this point, I was wrong to call, I know. But wait.... River (board: Kd 8c 3s 7d 8h): I figure he has put me on an 8 based on my betting out on the flop, check-calling the turn. So I bet, hoping he has put me on an 8. He folded. Hand #432424-1430 Summary: $.20 is raked from a pot of $4.75. revlovejoy wins $4.55. So, question 1 - was I stupid to chase trips with that small pot as it was? Or is calling with low pair and an overcard considered OK? But the question I really have: once I was in, was that bluff on the river the right move? I assume my read was right, because he folded. The couple of rules I had in my head for bluffing was to keep it to one opponent (or 2) and don't do it if they have sufficient pot odds to call. | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Bungus, 18. Sep 2003 20:40 | ||
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| Seems like it to me. I may or may not have called with Kings, depending on the kicker. he didn't bet, so he obviously didn't have a King and a high card, maybe he had a low kicker. My moneys on him being a wuss or a bad player though. | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, mroban, 19. Sep 2003 12:11 | ||
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| most guys would call one bet on the river, especially in a game of that low limit. Nice play but I can't believe he folded. | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Schuster, 18. Sep 2003 22:11 | ||
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| Please do not take any offense if my remarks seem harsh. That said, I think you played this hand horribly, and your opponent played it equally bad. First off, note the texture of the flop. It's rainbow and there are absolutely no straight draws out there. Not even a gutshot. Note also that there are only 2 other people in the pot with you. Your bet on the flop was 100% correct. Given that board, the only hand that could really play for a bet was a king, and if the so-called "good player" had a king, he really should have raised the flop. In fact, with flops like these, I often bet from the blinds whether or not I have a hand. The odds of someone not having a king are just too good, and they are hard pressed to call you without one. If the "good player" can't limp in from middle position and feel good about his kicker against a blind hand, he really aren't a good player. Perhaps he was slowplaying something like KQo, which *may* be reasonable at bigger limits, but at low limit, people are far too likely to pay you off with second pair. Now, when you bet on the flop, you have represented top pair. When the turn is a blank, you really should bet again since you were just called. A lot of players will call the flop very light to see if you are just messing around. If he was doing so, it worked. There's no reason not to bet if you are willing to call a bet here. Even if you are "inducing a bluff" with your bottom pair of 3's, they are easily overtaken, and should be bet if you believe them to be best. If you don't think they are best, you don't have the pot odds to call. Not even close. On the river, your bet was also not good. The "good player" should call you down if he has a king. If he doesn't, he has a major leak in his game, and isn't as good as you thought he is. I'd put even money that you held the best hand on the river in a heartbeat. The only hand that you might get to fold that is better than yours is a 7. And even that is a bit doubtful. The best play here is to check and call, since you have something to show down. You really can only beat a bluff, so give your opponent a chance to bluff at it. You are almost assuredly going to be called if you are beaten, and you will never be called if your hand is best. Again, sorry if this was harsh. Good luck with future hands! Lee | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Schuster, 18. Sep 2003 22:12 | ||
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| > In fact, with flops like these, I often > bet from the blinds whether or not I have a hand. The odds of someone not having a > king are just too good, and they are hard pressed to call you without one. One more thing... I should note that I only represent the king when playing against 1 or 2 opponents. Bluffing into a big field is a big waste of a bet. Lee | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Andrew W, 18. Sep 2003 22:22 | ||
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| Thanks Lee - I don't consider your response harsh in any way. If I couldn't take the criticism I wouldn't have asked. In fact, I am so impressed by this site and the people who take time to answer questions like mine, with such in depth analysis. I can see where you're right about representing top pair - I should have bet on the turn. I think I see what you and Bungus mean - no way did he actually have the king, or he would have called. I guess I was seeing "good lay downs" when maybe what I should have noticed was someone calling too many hands too far then finally giving up. So I got lucky on a pot I played erratically - that's what I was looking to figure out. Back to my reading........ so many poker books, so little time...... | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, shorn, 19. Sep 2003 05:16 | ||
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| I agree with everything that Lee stated in his post. The only thing I would add is that it is extremely rare in LL to get someone to fold a pair on the river, so unless you are value betting, you are wasting $$. I would bet my life that he didn't hold Jackshite, b/c he would have called you down with it. My guess is that he had AQ or AJ or something like that. | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Bungus, 19. Sep 2003 10:50 | ||
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| or he was a big wuss. possibly a hobo. that extra buck coulda meant a 40 to him. gotta see all the angles here | ||
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| Re: Pulled off bluff in LL HE - right move?, Scott Learned, 21. Sep 2003 12:48 | ||
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| Do hobos typically have Internet access? | ||
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| His turn bet was a bluff., Dr_Monkey, 19. Sep 2003 10:50 | ||
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| I think your hand is a perfect example of Grant Pittman's post titled "Two common errors..." I think this guy called your flop bet even though he missed the flop. Then when you checked the turn, he figured you were bluffing and he thought his bet would make you fold. I think he would have folded if you raised him. Your bet on the river was enough to fold him because I think he had Jx or 10x. | ||
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