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Server Time: 3/12/2010 8:24:06 AM PACIFIC |
 LL HE player has started NL, Machinegun68, 18. Sep 2003 12:55 | ||
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| We have been playing NL for the first few times recently (usually our game is limit HE, draw, and stud). I am beginning to grasp the strategy changes necessary in proper NL play and am doing OK. For example, following Doyle Brunson's advice, I moved all-in with all the suited connectors I recieved several times last night. Was eventually called, I had 67d, opponent KQo, flop comes K62, my heart sinks, 6 on the turn. I like the suited connectors because when you are called with them you still have lots and lots of outs to make your hand. One major question I have is, what is the proper technique in HE for when you have flopped a monster hand? I held J7 last night on the button heads-up. My opponent could have anything. Flop comes J77 - I flopped the 2nd-nut full house. My opponent simply does not have JJ. Blinds are $.50/$1. Opponent makes it $7 to go (raises sb $6.50). What should I have done here? smooth called his $7 of course? I am very inexperienced in NL. I raised his $7 another $20, making it $20 to go for him. He thought forever and eventually made the great laydown (turns out he held a 7). His laydown got a lot of respect from me. My opponent is hyper-aggressive and I figured $20 wouldn't faze him much. Should I have slowplayed this hand in NL or tried to take the pot right there? Really what other cards could have hurt me? I'm thinking I should have either smooth called his $7 or else re-raised it maybe $5-$10, nothing too out of line and tried to get more money from him on the turn and river. Any thoughts on how to play NL when flopping a monster hand and getting bet into? | ||
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| Re: LL HE player has started NL, EC, 18. Sep 2003 14:19 | ||
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| If you had smooth called him he probably would have bet into you again on the turn, and possibly read you for a J in which case he will get very aggressive. So yes, when you have a monster like that I find it best to drag them along and wait for the kill. You'll get more money that way- after he's bet into you a couple times you can put him all in (assuming he didn't do it to you first, which of course is better) when he has more money committed to the pot and he might have better odds to call your all in. He'll be instantly scared if you put him all in on the flop. A good player might see the trap, but it's still worth trying. Eli on 18. Sep 2003 12:55 Machinegun68 wrote: > We have been playing NL for the first few times recently (usually our game is > limit HE, draw, and stud). I am beginning to grasp the strategy changes > necessary in proper NL play and am doing OK. > > For example, following Doyle Brunson's advice, I moved all-in with all the > suited connectors I recieved several times last night. Was eventually called, I > had 67d, opponent KQo, flop comes K62, my heart sinks, 6 on the turn. > I like the suited connectors because when you are called with them you still > have lots and lots of outs to make your hand. > > One major question I have is, what is the proper technique in HE for when you > have flopped a monster hand? I held J7 last night on the button heads-up. My > opponent could have anything. Flop comes J77 - I flopped the 2nd-nut full house. > My opponent simply does not have JJ. > Blinds are $.50/$1. Opponent makes it $7 to go (raises sb $6.50). > > What should I have done here? smooth called his $7 of course? I am very > inexperienced in NL. I raised his $7 another $20, making it $20 to go for him. > He thought forever and eventually made the great laydown (turns out he held a > 7). His laydown got a lot of respect from me. My opponent is hyper-aggressive > and I figured $20 wouldn't faze him much. > > Should I have slowplayed this hand in NL or tried to take the pot right there? > Really what other cards could have hurt me? I'm thinking I should have either > smooth called his $7 or else re-raised it maybe $5-$10, nothing too out of line > and tried to get more money from him on the turn and river. Any thoughts on how > to play NL when flopping a monster hand and getting bet into? | ||
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| Re: LL HE player has started NL, Jav, 18. Sep 2003 14:24 | ||
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| I don't know what circumstances Doyle might have suggested going all in with suited connectors in NLHE, but it seems like strange advice to me. Maybe if you are in a tournament and about to be blinded out or somthing. But in general suited connectors are worth less in NL than they are in limit. You really don't want to play drawing hands very often in NLHE. In a NL ring game you might play it from late position if there are lots limpers in the pot. For heads up play, high cards are much better. I would take A,x against a suited connector any day. As far as flopping a monster, if you are heads up I would smooth call a bet in that circumstance. A good rule of thumb is you should slow-play if you have a great hand that has little chance of being beaten, AND there is a good chance giving your opponent a free card might improve his hand (in a way that won't beat you). | ||
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| Re: LL HE player has started NL, Bungus, 18. Sep 2003 21:07 | ||
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| Word | ||
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| Re: LL HE player has started NL, _play_me, 18. Sep 2003 22:08 | ||
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| Aren't suited connectors much more likely to trip-up like in the scenario outlined above? on 18. Sep 2003 14:24 Jav wrote: > I don't know what circumstances Doyle might have suggested going all in with suited > connectors in NLHE, but it seems like strange advice to me. Maybe if you are in a > tournament and about to be blinded out or somthing. But in general suited connectors > are worth less in NL than they are in limit. You really don't want to play drawing > hands very often in NLHE. In a NL ring game you might play it from late position if > there are lots limpers in the pot. > > For heads up play, high cards are much better. I would take A,x against a suited > connector any day. > > As far as flopping a monster, if you are heads up I would smooth call a bet in that > circumstance. A good rule of thumb is you should slow-play if you have a great hand > that has little chance of being beaten, AND there is a good chance giving your > opponent a free card might improve his hand (in a way that won't beat you). | ||
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| Re: LL HE player has started NL, Schuster, 18. Sep 2003 22:17 | ||
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| Jav is right, I think you're really misunderstanding Doyle's philosphy on suited connectors. It's been a while since I read that portion of super system and I really don't use his play style, but I believe he said that if someone plays back at him on the flop *AND* he has a hand, he will put all his money in and leave the decision to his opponent. If you move in before the flop, the only time you will get called is if you are a big underdog. For example, if you hold something like 7s 6s and the flop is Ks 6h 2s, you bet and someone raises, Doyle might push all his chips in and leave the decision to the opponent. Obviously the flop won't always be as good, but it's a good example. You should probably go back and reread that section of the book and clear things up. Lee | ||
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| Re: LL HE player has started NL, Machinegun68, 19. Sep 2003 01:11 | ||
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| Yes, you guys are right. I reread that part of the super system and it seems like Doyle would be reluctant to move all-in pre flop with suited connectors. He does refer to them as "favorite" hands I believe, and I tend to agree. A hand like 54 suited could flop just about anything that would be well-hidden - flush, straight, straight flush, two pair, etc. Perhaps moving all-in preflop is extreme. It just happened to work a number of times for me last night against big unsuited cards (KJ, QT, etc.) | ||
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