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Server Time: 12/2/2008 9:43:08 AM PACIFIC |
 Bet the River....Oops I did it again, mkpoker, 16. Sep 2003 22:38 | ||
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| Earlier today, we had a lovely thread about the importance of betting the river and not leaving an extra BB on the table. Like other posters, I acknowledged this was a leak in my game and swore I'd do better. Tonight, I got this hand...and apologies to Brittany Spears...But...Oops I did it again! Take a peek and tell me if you think I should have bet the river here. 3/6 UB HE. From the BB, I'm dealt 9hJh. All night, the SB had been raising to steal my blinds, but my cards had been so poor, I couldn't do anything about it! On this hand, all fold to ths SB who raises. I reraise (criticize this move if you must, but I figured him on a steal and thought he might muck to a reraise). He called. Flop is Kd9c2c. He checks. I bet, figuring if he's got a K, he'll raise and I'll muck. But he calls. I'm unsure, but I'm guessing I have the best hand...maybe he's on the flush draw. Turn is Tc. Rats. Again he checks. Again I bet into him, thinking if he has a flush he'll raise, and if it's very low, maybe he'll even dump it (a long shot, I admit). Also, I have a gutshot straight draw now, though it's pretty close to valueless. Again, he calls. River is Kh, pairing the board. He checks. Let's think about this for a moment. I don't think he's got the flush, because he failed to raise or bet on the turn. I also don't think he has a king, or he would have bet the flop to protect his hand against the draw. By my logic (which you may or may not agree with ) I think my middle pair was the best hand on the turn. Here's the rub: If I had the best hand on the turn, THERE'S NO WAY HE COULD HAVE OVERTAKEN ME WITH A 2ND K ON THE RIVER! So what do I do? I check right back. He turns over Ac2s and my KK99 beats his KK22. Why didn't I bet the river? Because I lacked confidence in my read of his hand...which turned out to be dead right. I just didn't trust myself. That...and I'm stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Your thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Bet the River....Oops I did it again, SendMoney, 16. Sep 2003 23:09 | ||
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| There is a chance he had a hand like 1010 or JJ and was fearful of you having a big hand like AA AK or KK that would easily beat hit hand, but just strong enough that he didn't want to fold it. I don't think checking the river with a relatively marginal holding is such a terrible move. Of course you'd like to punish an extra BB out of him for his aggressive behavior, but a river bet is really not necessary for two reasons. 1. You'll just pay him more if you're beaten, especially if he was slow playing a real monster hand and check/raises the river. 2. If he was drawing to two pair and missed with a hand like A2o then there is little chance he'll call your river bet with a pair of deuces. Basically he'll only call you if you're beat, in which case it is appropriate to check behind him. Keep in mind a hand like A9 or Q9 will beat you as well. | ||
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| Re: Bet the River....Oops I did it again, shorn, 17. Sep 2003 05:07 | ||
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| I would have checked this one down. You have third pair at this point and I can't think of a hand that he would actually call you with on the river that you could beat. He would call you with a Ten, but that doesn't help you. He may even call you with a 9, but not unless his kicker is at least as high as yours. IMO, no way he would call with his pair of 2's here, so you didn't lose anything. Frankly, when the last King came off, he would have put you on a King if you had bet it again since you re-raised pre-flop and bet the whole way. I think that betting this board at the end has three results, all of them bad for you: he folds, he calls with a better hand, he raises and you lose 2. | ||
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| Re: Bet the River....Oops I did it again, Roy Cooke, 17. Sep 2003 07:05 | ||
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| Hi I would have checked the river unless he was the texture of player that would call with A-high.....There are many hands that a player could check and call with in that spot fearful that you have a King......Gutshots that hit a 10...a better 9.....or QQ...JJ....Some players might have a weak King....Like most poker decisions....the option of betting the river is a function of your opponents and their reaction to how the hand played. Roy Cooke on 16. Sep 2003 22:38 mkpoker wrote: > Earlier today, we had a lovely thread about the importance of betting the river > and not leaving an extra BB on the table. Like other posters, I acknowledged > this was a leak in my game and swore I'd do better. Tonight, I got this > hand...and apologies to Brittany Spears...But...Oops I did it again! Take a > peek and tell me if you think I should have bet the river here. > > 3/6 UB HE. From the BB, I'm dealt 9hJh. All night, the SB had been raising to > steal my blinds, but my cards had been so poor, I couldn't do anything about it! > > > On this hand, all fold to ths SB who raises. I reraise (criticize this move if > you must, but I figured him on a steal and thought he might muck to a reraise). > He called. > > Flop is Kd9c2c. He checks. I bet, figuring if he's got a K, he'll raise and > I'll muck. But he calls. I'm unsure, but I'm guessing I have the best > hand...maybe he's on the flush draw. > > Turn is Tc. Rats. Again he checks. Again I bet into him, thinking if he has > a flush he'll raise, and if it's very low, maybe he'll even dump it (a long > shot, I admit). Also, I have a gutshot straight draw now, though it's pretty > close to valueless. Again, he calls. > > River is Kh, pairing the board. He checks. > > Let's think about this for a moment. I don't think he's got the flush, because > he failed to raise or bet on the turn. I also don't think he has a king, or he > would have bet the flop to protect his hand against the draw. By my logic > (which you may or may not agree with ) I think my middle pair was the best hand > on the turn. > > Here's the rub: If I had the best hand on the turn, THERE'S NO WAY HE COULD > HAVE OVERTAKEN ME WITH A 2ND K ON THE RIVER! > > So what do I do? I check right back. He turns over Ac2s and my KK99 beats his > KK22. Why didn't I bet the river? Because I lacked confidence in my read of > his hand...which turned out to be dead right. I just didn't trust myself. > That...and I'm stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. > > Your thoughts? > > | ||
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| Re: Bet the River....Oops I did it again, grant pittman, 17. Sep 2003 07:46 | ||
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| Well mkpoker you are getting a little rough on yourself here. I don't generally like your reraise here but we can discuss that later. On the flop your bet is, I think, an obvious one. On the turn you get one of the worse cards in the deck for you since it brings about straight and flush draws....also a Q10 hand or J10 hand just drew out on you. All this being accounted for I still like your choice to bet the turn.......so many players take any ace to the turn and will draw to any flush that betting here is a must. I would have bet the river but it's probably close. I say it's close because you could easily get paid by a smaller wired pair or possibly a worse 9 however that 10 on the turn is the real ugly card. There is also a chance( a rather remote one) that your opponent could be waiting to pop you on the river with a flush or better but we can't go playin poker with our tail between our legs....it's SO WIMPY!!! Just a thought. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Bet the River....Oops I did it again, noiseboy, 17. Sep 2003 16:03 | ||
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| In this case you shouldn't bet the river, because the only way he is calling is if you are beat. | ||
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| Re: Bet the River....Oops I did it again, noiseboy, 17. Sep 2003 16:10 | ||
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| on 17. Sep 2003 16:03 noiseboy wrote: > In this case you shouldn't bet the river, because the only way he is calling is if > you are beat. You know, on second thought, there are hands he might beat you with that he would fold to a bet. I like the analysis you made to conclude that the K didn't help him. Sometimes I will bet with absolutely nothing if the board pairs and I can deduce that it didn't help my opponent. Just ask yourself: what was the reaction of my opponent when the first card hit. How did the action come down after that? If you are sure enough about your read, then the bet is fine. | ||
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