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Server Time: 8/30/2008 9:53:36 AM PACIFIC |
 Early morning pro play, stdioh, 15. Sep 2003 10:48 | ||
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| I just posted a response in "money and odds" similar to this, but I thought I should make a seperate post because it is good food for thought. Playing the early mornings can be a very profitable time. In Vegas, it sounds like weekends are the best times to play because you get "tourists" coming into town to play cards for the weekend, but in local cardrooms, like Brantford I've found the best times to be weekday mornings. Here's why. On the weekend you'll get long lists to get on a table and a lot of the players who would come into the game on a lark aren't going to wait. The pros, however will always wait. When you do play you'll face a whole spectrum of players. There are only 3 kinds of players you find in early morning sessions. You should up and get seated at 3:00 am and you're facing 2 types from last night. There are the fish who were getting hit over the head with the deck from 8:00 to 1:00 and are now desperately giving back everything they won plus everything else they can get out of the machine. And you've got the pros who are going to play with them until they leave nomatter how tired they get. Sleepy pros are on their B games or worse and the "lucky" fish is now playing the worst he's played all night. When these guys take off around 5:00 it gets quiet for a moment, but that just pushes the rest of the pros off to home. There's no money there for them and they leave, but little do they know that in half an hour the old people are coming. It's shocking to sit there and watch a half dozen great players leave the cardroom for breakfast minutes before a dozen total fish amble in from breakfast. You'll get the old people who wake up early and having nothing to do coming in and playing from 5:30-8:30 and they provide wonderful action. Just as they are winding down and getting ready to leave, the morning pros are about to start their game and as they arrive I can suck back that last complimentary coffee and head out to my day job. In the bio-evolutionary world, every species gets where it is going by finding a niche to exploit and so it is with poker players. You'll find the "5-10 pros" ... guys who sit at the 5-10, creaming it, but never moving up. There are players who come in on the weekends to work the game and there are players who come in at all hours. The trick is to find an underexploited niche and slip into it. In my case, the 3:00-8:00 game is wonderful, not because it is filled with horrible players, but because it is lacking really good players. There's nothing wrong with sitting at a table with 9 non-terrible players who aren't good either - it's a nice steady way to make some money and because there might only be one table open at each limit at this hour it's a time when the pros aren't smelling enough blood in the water to come around. So the lesson is, find a niche and slip into it. Find out what kind of game you're good at beating and play it. And most importantly, don't wait for 2 hours to get onto a table that you'll have a hard time beating when you can come in at another time, sit right down, and get to work. Good luck and happy hunting. | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Hatchthunder, 15. Sep 2003 10:59 | ||
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| I find it odd that you like playing with the retirement set. I have found these players very tight/passive. You might win a couple of bets from these players but generally they are not in a hand unless they have the best hands. I much prefer the 21-30 age group. These guys have generally just come in after watching the WPT and they have their sunglasses and hat on (LMAO). These types want to play cards have do not have the discipline to fold bad starting hands. They try to bluff at the wrong times and always have a boatload of cash. | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, EC, 15. Sep 2003 13:37 | ||
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| I'll take the retiree set any day. Those whose games have not changed/grown over the years are easy to beat up, no matter how tight they are. The 21-30 sunglassed/low hatted crowd can indeed be dumb and easy to beat, but the grumpy old man is more predictable. BTW, I'm 29 and sometimes wear hat and/or sunglasses, I'd invite you to my table to personally change your view of these types :-) Eli on 15. Sep 2003 10:59 Hatchthunder wrote: > I find it odd that you like playing with the retirement set. I have found these > players very tight/passive. You might win a couple of bets from these players but > generally they are not in a hand unless they have the best hands. I much prefer the > 21-30 age group. These guys have generally just come in after watching the WPT and > they have their sunglasses and hat on (LMAO). These types want to play cards have do > not have the discipline to fold bad starting hands. They try to bluff at the wrong > times and always have a boatload of cash. | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Jav, 15. Sep 2003 16:27 | ||
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| I'm 31 and always wear a hat when I'm playing live. I've only worn sunglasses in one $300 NL tournament I played in. But in general I play a lot more internet poker than live poker. I know that there are people very good at reading tells, and if wearing a hat and sunglasses can mask even one important tell I might give off during a session then it's worth it. And now there is a new bonus. If some players automatically think I'm a bad player because of it then that might make it worth it all by itself! | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Barry T, 15. Sep 2003 17:18 | ||
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| Hi, Eli: Stereotypes are very useful in poker. Obviously, not everyone fits the profile, so you might be the world's best player under that hat and sunglasses. But the average 29 year old does not have a very sophisticated game, plays too loose (not always before the flop), has to some degree a case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) and gets his ego in the way of his cash generation priority. Some play way worse than that, and a very few play a whole lot better. When one sits down at a table, one has little to go on except stereotypes. In all cases it might not be true that "The older the player the higher the kicker" but that is the way to bet if you have nothing else to go on. No one ever means anything personal l about it. | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, EC, 15. Sep 2003 22:33 | ||
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| I hope nobody thought by my post that I took the original post personally- I'm as aware as anyone that there are many in my age group who have no idea what they're doing. And I have no problem if others want to see me that way before they know me better, it can only help. Eli on 15. Sep 2003 17:18 Barry T wrote: > Hi, Eli: Stereotypes are very useful in poker. Obviously, not everyone fits the profile, so you > might be the world's best player under that hat and sunglasses. But the average 29 year old > does not have a very sophisticated game, plays too loose (not always before the flop), has to > some degree a case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) and gets his ego in the way of his cash > generation priority. Some play way worse than that, and a very few play a whole lot better. > > When one sits down at a table, one has little to go on except stereotypes. In all cases it > might not be true that "The older the player the higher the kicker" but that is the way to bet > if you have nothing else to go on. > > No one ever means anything personal l about it. > > | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, gary ford, 15. Sep 2003 23:27 | ||
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| on 15. Sep 2003 22:33 EC wrote: > I hope nobody thought by my post that I took the original post personally- I'm as aware as anyone > that there are many in my age group who have no idea what they're doing. And I have no problem if > others want to see me that way before they know me better, it can only help. > > > Eli > > on 15. Sep 2003 17:18 Barry T wrote: > > Hi, Eli: Stereotypes are very useful in poker. Obviously, not everyone fits the profile, so you > > > might be the world's best player under that hat and sunglasses. But the average 29 year old > > does not have a very sophisticated game, plays too loose (not always before the flop), has to > > some degree a case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) and gets his ego in the way of his cash > > generation priority. Some play way worse than that, and a very few play a whole lot better. > > > > When one sits down at a table, one has little to go on except stereotypes. In all cases it > > might not be true that "The older the player the higher the kicker" but that is the way to bet > > if you have nothing else to go on. > > > > No one ever means anything personal l about it. > > > > | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, gary ford, 15. Sep 2003 23:30 | ||
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| on 15. Sep 2003 22:33 EC wrote: > I hope nobody thought by my post that I took the original post personally- I'm as aware as anyone > that there are many in my age group who have no idea what they're doing. And I have no problem if > others want to see me that way before they know me better, it can only help. > > > Eli > Studioh has characterized me as a grumpy old man==lets get it on!!!!!! Gary > on 15. Sep 2003 17:18 Barry T wrote: > > Hi, Eli: Stereotypes are very useful in poker. Obviously, not everyone fits the profile, so you > > > might be the world's best player under that hat and sunglasses. But the average 29 year old > > does not have a very sophisticated game, plays too loose (not always before the flop), has to > > some degree a case of FPS (Fancy Play Syndrome) and gets his ego in the way of his cash > > generation priority. Some play way worse than that, and a very few play a whole lot better. > > > > When one sits down at a table, one has little to go on except stereotypes. In all cases it > > might not be true that "The older the player the higher the kicker" but that is the way to bet > > if you have nothing else to go on. > > > > No one ever means anything personal l about it. > > > > | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, LJH, 16. Sep 2003 19:21 | ||
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| GARY, WOULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.LJH | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, gary ford, 17. Sep 2003 07:52 | ||
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| on 16. Sep 2003 19:21 LJH wrote: > GARY, WOULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.LJH Sure--EC said in his post he'd take the grumpy old man over the young guy as an opponent---Based on an earlier (j/k ) studioh post, I issued a challenge as the "grumpy old man" Gary | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Barry T, 16. Sep 2003 01:52 | ||
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| Hi, Eli: I was not sure and I am glad you cleared it up. When someone says "Come play with me and you will change your mind" (which is what I read into your post) I sometimes fear they did in fact take it personally. In fact, if you look like a stereotype and are aware of it but do not play like that, it can make you considerable money. I wish I looked 29. Heck, I wish I WAS 29. But the truth is that at 29, I could never have played the way I do today. BarryT | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Schuster, 16. Sep 2003 21:03 | ||
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| I agree completely. I don't get the chance to play many live games outside of my regular home games, but when I do, I love that people underestimate me. I'm only 21 years old. It's great to have people think that you just learned to play by watching the WPT. Not getting respect on your raises can be a blessing and curse, depending on how you play it. =) Lee | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Andrew Wells, 15. Sep 2003 17:47 | ||
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| I hear ya EC, I'm on your side of this one. | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, Andrew Wells, 15. Sep 2003 17:44 | ||
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| I like playing with the old folks, and I like Sausage McMuffin with Egg occasionally too. I like players who are predictable and never change their style. I don't mind waiting for a seat in the only hold'em game that's going as long as I have my coffee and morning paper. I like the social club atmosphere these guys bring to the table, and I'll even sit in the tightass $1-$5 stud game once in awhile. But you're right about the grave shift, it can be the most profitable of all. My card room closes from 4:00 to 10:00 AM weekdays though, however the games are almost always good. | ||
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| Re: Early morning pro play, LJH, 16. Sep 2003 19:17 | ||
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| STDIOH, THANKS FOR THE TIP.WHEN I GET TO THEORLEANS IS JANUARY, I WILLL TRY IT. LJH | ||
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