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Server Time: 12/2/2008 9:46:38 AM PACIFIC |
 An interesting hand (long post), mkpoker, 15. Sep 2003 09:45 | ||
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| While I'd welcome comments on my play here, my primary intent is to share results from a crazy hand from a 3/6 limit online HE game last night. Hope you find this as interesting as I did... What made this hand unique (IMHO) was the texture of the table. All night, it was like a tale of two tables, with solid by-the-book tight players to my right and loose-passive calling stations to my left. The button was a new arrival, who posted an out-of-turn blind on this hand. From MP (tight players are in EP; loose players are in LP), I'm dealt KdQd. Two folds to me, I limp, as do 5 players behind me (inc. button who checks). BB raises--I'm confident she wouldn't do so without a premium hand. I call, as does everyone else, we take a raised pot 7-handed. Flop is 5cKhJd. SB checks, BB bets. I've flopped top pair with a good kicker, but I'm not happy at all. I'm putting the tight BB player on AK, AA, maybe AQs. QQ or JJ are also possible, I suppose. I seriously contemplate folding (!), but with a good hand, a big pot, and backdoor flush and straight possibilities, I decide to call. All players behind me call except the button, who folds. The 6-handed turn comes: Th. [Board is 5c Kh Jd Th] I've now got an open-end straight draw, but there's a heart flush draw on the board. Now the SB, who's only called to date, bets out. The tight BB player, who had been leading at the pot, now calls only. I contemplate raising, but elect to call only. I don't raise for three reasons 1) someone might have AQ for the nut straight already; 2) there's now a heart flush draw on the board, which could beat my straight if I make it; and 3) with so much action out there already, I don't need to raise to get money into this pot! The loose player behind me now raises (his first raise). Everyone calls, including me. We take the river 6-handed. River is 9s [Board is 5c Kh Jd Th 9s], making my KQd the next-to-nut straight (beaten only by AQ). BB and SB check to me. I check also, intending to check raise. Loose player behind me [who had raised the turn] bets out, and the loose player behind him (who had only called to date) raises. Cutoff calls (he hadn't bet or raised the entire hand)! SB folds. BB folds. Now I'm in a quandry. Should I 3-bet the river? The players behind me are loose, but hadn't been terribly aggressive to date. I'm pretty confident with my hand, but I'm still fearful of AQ. I call only. The original bettor calls--we have a four way showdown with a huge pot (for 3/6). So...what do you think these players were holding? (I'll post the answer in a bit) Tight BB: Who had raised pre-flop, bet aggressively on the flop and folded on the river. Loose MP (1-behind me): The calling station who suddenly came to life to bet the turn and raise the river. Loose MP2 (2-behind me): The calling station who called the entire way and then raised the river. The Silent Cutoff: The calling station who, like me, dutifully called every bet--never raised, never led--all the way to the river. | ||
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| Re: An interesting hand (long post), Boftx, 15. Sep 2003 10:12 | ||
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| I would almost bet there was a pair of 10's and a 95 out there for a set and 2 pair goin against your straight, and probably an AA in the loose player who came to life on the river who was slow-playing them. | ||
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| Re: An interesting hand (long post), Eman, 15. Sep 2003 10:25 | ||
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| I figured the one of the loose player had something like Qx h's.....or pocket 10's or 9's and has the set. Did you split the pot? | ||
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| Re: An interesting hand (long post), 4 POKER, 15. Sep 2003 10:28 | ||
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| Hi, You stated that the players to your left were loose, but you didn't mention if they were aggresive/good and would raise prefop with a high pocket pair, (KK, JJ), so without that information, I wouldn't think that one of them flopped a set and now got outdrawn on it; but I 'would' believe that perhaps, this pot was a "chop-chop". (maybe one had the Q9 when he raised the pot on the turn). BUT, because you never made a lead out bet on the river with loose players behnd you; if they 'were' loose and maniacal, then perhaps they overplayed their hands on the river and were trying to make a play for the pot. But I'm going to with my first impression and say that you guys chopped the pot, maybe a 3-way chop? I don't know why, but I didn't give any of them an AQ for the nuts. 4P- | ||
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| Re: An interesting hand (long post), jaustin, 15. Sep 2003 10:35 | ||
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| My reads: > Tight BB: Who had raised pre-flop, bet aggressively on the flop and folded on > the river. AA or AK - knows that a queen beats him and will all the action there's at least one out there. > Loose MP (1-behind me): The calling station who suddenly came to life to bet > the turn and raise the river. KT or Q9 > Loose MP2 (2-behind me): The calling station who called the entire way and > then raised the river. Qx (most likely J or T) > The Silent Cutoff: The calling station who, like me, dutifully called every > bet--never raised, never led--all the way to the river. Kx - calling all the way down with top pair, no kicker. I think you played the hand fine, although I would have raised the flop (quoting Phil Hellmuth) "to find out where you are" and also to make it expensive for drawing hands. If the BB re-raising you can put him on AA, AK, or JJ and plan to fold unless you're hand improves. | ||
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| An interesting hand...The Result, mkpoker, 15. Sep 2003 12:33 | ||
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| Good guesses all, but 4 Poker wins the prize (of course, the prize is that we'll all try to avoid his tables because his analysis is too good!) The pot was indeed a 3-way chop. WHO HELD WHAT: Tight BB: Who had raised pre-flop, bet aggressively on the flop and folded on the river. SHE HELD: AA. > > Loose MP (1-behind me): The calling station who suddenly came to life to bet the turn and raise the river. HE HELD: AT. Tried to make a play for the pot against 5 players when he hit 3rd pair, top kicker with gutshot straight draw. No wonder he left broke. Loose MP2 (2-behind me): The calling station who called the entire way and then raised the river. > HE HELD: Qs2s. Makes sense. A loose player calling a substandard hand all the way. When it finally hits, he raised. The Silent Cutoff: The calling station who called the entire way. HE HELD: Qc9c. Hit the straight on the turn but didn't raise? An odd play, but...whatever. | ||
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| Re: An interesting hand (long post), Roy Cooke, 16. Sep 2003 07:17 | ||
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| Hi MK My comments are beneath your paragraphs: Roy Cooke. rote: > While I'd welcome comments on my play here, my primary intent is to share > results from a crazy hand from a 3/6 limit online HE game last night. Hope you > find this as interesting as I did... > > What made this hand unique (IMHO) was the texture of the table. All night, it > was like a tale of two tables, with solid by-the-book tight players to my right > and loose-passive calling stations to my left. The button was a new arrival, > who posted an out-of-turn blind on this hand. Roy Says: You should change seats so the tight players are behind you and the loose-passive players are in front of you. > > From MP (tight players are in EP; loose players are in LP), I'm dealt KdQd. > Two folds to me, I limp, as do 5 players behind me (inc. button who checks). BB > raises--I'm confident she wouldn't do so without a premium hand. I call, as > does everyone else, we take a raised pot 7-handed. Roy Says: I like your limp (rather than raise)...It creates volume on a volume hand and will bring more of the bad players into the pot and you can outplay them later in the hand. > > Flop is 5cKhJd. SB checks, BB bets. I've flopped top pair with a good kicker, > but I'm not happy at all. I'm putting the tight BB player on AK, AA, maybe AQs. > QQ or JJ are also possible, I suppose. I seriously contemplate folding (!), > but with a good hand, a big pot, and backdoor flush and straight possibilities, > I decide to call. All players behind me call except the button, who folds. Roy Says: BAD PLAY...You should raise! The pot is pretty good size and if you are going to play your hand, I would be MUCH more concerned with protecting your hand and lowering the price of your opponents to draw rather than saving a small bet. > > The 6-handed turn comes: Th. [Board is 5c Kh Jd Th] I've now got an open-end > straight draw, but there's a heart flush draw on the board. Now the SB, who's > only called to date, bets out. The tight BB player, who had been leading at the > pot, now calls only. I contemplate raising, but elect to call only. > > I don't raise for three reasons 1) someone might have AQ for the nut straight > already; 2) there's now a heart flush draw on the board, which could beat my > straight if I make it; and 3) with so much action out there already, I don't > need to raise to get money into this pot! Roy Says: Now that you are here....At this point of decision I agree that you should not raise here! > > The loose player behind me now raises (his first raise). Everyone calls, > including me. We take the river 6-handed. > > River is 9s [Board is 5c Kh Jd Th 9s], making my KQd the next-to-nut straight > (beaten only by AQ). BB and SB check to me. I check also, intending to check > raise. Loose player behind me [who had raised the turn] bets out, and the loose > player behind him (who had only called to date) raises. Cutoff calls (he hadn't > bet or raised the entire hand)! SB folds. BB folds. > > Now I'm in a quandry. Should I 3-bet the river? The players behind me are > loose, but hadn't been terribly aggressive to date. I'm pretty confident with > my hand, but I'm still fearful of AQ. I call only. The original bettor > calls--we have a four way showdown with a huge pot (for 3/6). Roy 'Says: You should give a crying call......The hand is probably a split, but you also might be beat......No players should call three-bets without having at least a split! > > So...what do you think these players were holding? (I'll post the answer in a > bit) > > Tight BB: Who had raised pre-flop, bet aggressively on the flop and folded on > the river. > > Loose MP (1-behind me): The calling station who suddenly came to life to bet > the turn and raise the river. > > Loose MP2 (2-behind me): The calling station who called the entire way and > then raised the river. > > The Silent Cutoff: The calling station who, like me, dutifully called every > bet--never raised, never led--all the way to the river. | ||
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