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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:43:16 AM PACIFIC |
 Would you fold?, shorn, 15. Sep 2003 07:55 | ||
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| 5/10 kill game (at $100). I have J9 OTB. 2 callers to me, I call, SB completes and BB checks to see the freebie. Flop comes 9A9 with two spades. SB checks, BB leads, two folds to me and I raise. SB folds, BB re-raises. Hard for me to put him on that many hands here because there was no raise pre-flop, but I figure him for an Ace-medium kicker or a pocket pair lower than 9's trying to represent a 9. I don't put him on a 9 as I think he would have just smooth called the flop. I decide to just call in hopes he will perceive weakness and bet again on the turn at which point I can raise. Turn is the ugliest card i could see...A of hearts which gives me a full, but I don't feel good about it. He leads out. There are 6 BB's in the pot now (after the rake) and I have to believe I am beaten. But, I have a full house!!! It seems to me that I am drawing to one out here. However, there is a chance that he is bluffing and since the pot is sort of big, I make the crying call on the turn. No 9 on the river, I make another crying call and he shows me AQ for the higher boat. I think i wasted at least $10 on this hand (river call) and maybe $20. Is there anyone who would have folded on the turn? Or raised the turn? Effectively, I would be losing the same amount of $$ assuming he would re-raise and then I could fold with a clearer conscience. Thoughts please. Thanks, Steve | ||
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| Re: Would you fold?, Roy Cooke, 15. Sep 2003 08:06 | ||
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| Hi Shorn What I would do would depend on how I read my opponent.....What are the chances he was bluffing when he 3-bet you? Would he lead into the field with a 9? If he is not bluffing and you think it unlikely that he would lead with a nine...your hand is effectively dead. Even if you think he will lead with a nine...you are hoping to split the pot at best.....If it is equally likely he would play both an Ace and a 9 in the same manner on the flop....He is twice as likely to have an Ace over a 9 as you have one of the nines.....Unless there are unusual circumstances regarding this player ...I am folding! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 15. Sep 2003 07:55 shorn wrote: > 5/10 kill game (at $100). I have J9 OTB. 2 callers to me, I call, SB completes > and BB checks to see the freebie. Flop comes 9A9 with two spades. SB checks, > BB leads, two folds to me and I raise. SB folds, BB re-raises. Hard for me to > put him on that many hands here because there was no raise pre-flop, but I > figure him for an Ace-medium kicker or a pocket pair lower than 9's trying to > represent a 9. I don't put him on a 9 as I think he would have just smooth > called the flop. I decide to just call in hopes he will perceive weakness and > bet again on the turn at which point I can raise. > > Turn is the ugliest card i could see...A of hearts which gives me a full, but I > don't feel good about it. He leads out. There are 6 BB's in the pot now (after > the rake) and I have to believe I am beaten. But, I have a full house!!! It > seems to me that I am drawing to one out here. However, there is a chance that > he is bluffing and since the pot is sort of big, I make the crying call on the > turn. No 9 on the river, I make another crying call and he shows me AQ for the > higher boat. > > I think i wasted at least $10 on this hand (river call) and maybe $20. Is > there anyone who would have folded on the turn? Or raised the turn? > Effectively, I would be losing the same amount of $$ assuming he would re-raise > and then I could fold with a clearer conscience. > > Thoughts please. > > Thanks, > > Steve | ||
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| Re: Would you fold?, shorn, 16. Sep 2003 05:57 | ||
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| Roy- Spot on read. It was hard since there was no pre-flop raise to get an actual read, but when he led out on the turn after three-betting the flop, I should have known my best outcome was a chop and at worst I was donating $20. Thanks, Steve | ||
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| Re: Would you fold?, Andrew Wells, 15. Sep 2003 18:25 | ||
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| I would have folded preflop from the button, because if I just hit one pair it may have helped a limping hand more than the J9. You may end up getting check/called the whole way by a better hand, without ever really knowing where you are. The hand is nicknamed "lobster trap" for such reasons. I'll limp in if many players have called already, but it can be a trap hand even if you complete the straight. Okay so you played it. You got bet into on the turn after the flop action, so do you really think he doesn't have you on an ace or a nine at that point. He bet the turn with the understanding that you were likely to raise, that in itself doesn't seem like a bluffing situation. I wouldn't pay off anyone but a wild player here. The $20 it's going to cost to catch someone on an outright steal or a pocket pair bigger than nines is too much relative to this pot for me. The pot isn't sort of big at all when you know it's going to cost a bet on the turn and another on the river. You gave up the initiative when you elected not to take it to four bets on the flop, which may allow this player to bet again with the case nine. If you are up against the case nine, making it four bets on the flop probably lets you check if an ace hits the turn. | ||
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| Re: Would you fold?, shorn, 16. Sep 2003 05:56 | ||
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| Andrew- Great points. I apologize, but my hand was J9s. Not that it makes a humongous difference, but if it was not suited I most likely would have thrown it away. I think the best play after analyzing it would have been to fold the turn based on what I knew of this player (somewhat tight, didn't bluff a lot). When the Ace turned, I knew it was a bad card for me. I just am still having trouble laying down big hands even when I know I am donating. Definitely something i need to work on. Thanks for the reply. Steve | ||
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| Re: Would you fold?, grant pittman, 15. Sep 2003 18:54 | ||
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| Shorn you certainly have a tough call on the turn. My decision to call the hand down( I think calling the turn and folding the river is terrible) would be based on what I know of my opponent. Often times we are left guessing when playing online because we simply haven't played enough poker with our opponents to know their games well. Remember there were 2 spades on the flop and some people go crazy betting when they flop a draw....also since he was in the big blind he could have anything including the other 9. I hate drawing dead but I likely would have reluctantly called as you did since there are holdings you can beat or tie that a lot of players would play the same way as your opponent did. Good luck!!! GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Would you fold?, shorn, 16. Sep 2003 05:59 | ||
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| Grant- I apologize for forgetting to menion it, but it was a B&M game. I had played with this fellow once before nd knew him to be a decent if not spectacular player. But, one who rarely bluffs at pots without some sort of hand. My calls were crying more than anything and this type of call is a leak in my game that if fixed, could have saved me 2 big bets. Hopefully, the next time this situation comes up, I will make the right fold. Thanks, Steve | ||
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