|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 3/21/2010 8:14:45 PM PACIFIC |
 Some advice please, Michael C, 14. Sep 2003 09:37 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi - please review this for me. I was in a 3-6 LP with 9T spades, 8 saw the flop, it gave me a 4 st8 draw to the nuts but there were 2 hearts and 1 spade. Many callers. The turn gave me the Nut st8. There were of course 2 hearts and 2 spades with a big pot. The river was of course a heart and I lost to a Q3 hearts. Comments. Maybe with the 2 hearts I should have release my hand or would you play it the same way. THANKS | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, MozMan, 14. Sep 2003 09:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Michael- Yout made your str8 on the turn; you really don't want to fold it to a draw. What you want to do is make sure you are betting it. I assume you bet/raised this hand. If you only called on the turn, then that would have been a mistake; making your hand is exactly why you would want to pump the pot. If someone stays in and makes their draw, then that's just bad luck. You might also have considered a value-bet on the flop. That may have thinned out some other drawing hands for you, or might have pumped the pot a little for when you make your hand. -Moz "It's not so much that I have confidence in scientists being right; it's that I have so much confidence in non-scientists being wrong." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Michael C, 14. Sep 2003 11:47 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks for your reply - No one was folding to a raise preflop unless they had 72o in this game. So, I don;t remember if I raised it or not. I might have. I raised on the Turn after he bet (he was to my right) and about 4 people called my raise. I figured him for a flush draw and my bad *luck" a heart came. Spade would have ginven me a J flush. I would have loved a diamond or a club. Duh ! My real question was it good to chase a ST8 when you have 4 to a nut straight and a back end flush draw when there is another flush draw on the flop? It was a good pot. Lots of good odds. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, MozMan, 15. Sep 2003 19:22 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yeah, I think you were probably getting proper odds to stay involved in the pot. You were drawing multiple ways, and just got unlucky when he outdrew you. -Moz "It's not so much that I have confidence in scientists being right; it's that I have so much confidence in non-scientists being wrong." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Michael C, 15. Sep 2003 19:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| thanks MOZ | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Roy Cooke, 14. Sep 2003 10:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi Michael While a flush draw present does weaken a straight draw...You were still getting enough odds from the pot to draw to the straight in spite of the flush draw.....Your hand was also stregnthen by the fact that you had a back-door flush draw yourself. When faced with drawing situations such as yours, I try to determine my chances of winning with the other draws and adjust my odds accordingly....Yes, I understand that judgment is subjective and and educated guess at best...but if you keep making those judgments you will acquire feel for those situations and your judgements will gain in accuracy. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 14. Sep 2003 09:37 Michael C wrote: > Hi - please review this for me. I was in a 3-6 LP with 9T spades, 8 saw the > flop, it gave me a 4 st8 draw to the nuts but there were 2 hearts and 1 spade. > Many callers. The turn gave me the Nut st8. There were of course 2 hearts and 2 > spades with a big pot. The river was of course a heart and I lost to a Q3 > hearts. > > Comments. Maybe with the 2 hearts I should have release my hand or would you > play it the same way. > > THANKS | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Michael C, 14. Sep 2003 11:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks, Roy - Good advice. I feel good about the way I played this. There were good pot odds. The pot had at least $70, maybe more. He just our drew me. He was getting good odds as well. My raise did not slow him down and the maniacs at the other end (3) asked me if I had it when I raised and I said yes. He said hope so and he called. Then the guy (7) that won also called my raise (8) when he knew* that I had the nuts. * Or should have known. Maybe because I was not on many st8 draws and they did not believe me since I was mostly playing premium hands and flush draws to the nuts. Good reason to mix it it up some. Of course, I would have been happy for them to fold right there. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, shorn, 15. Sep 2003 07:14 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You had the odds to draw to your 6 clean outs, so I think you played it correctly. When you raise the turn and get 4 callers, then it is safe to assume that there is one if not two flush draws out there. So, you need a a non-heart for sure on the river, but you are probably rooting for a non-spade (unless it gives you the str8 flush) because the odds of everyone else having hearts only (and no one having higher spaes than you) is pretty low. The question I have is how the river was played. If it was checked to the guy on your right, then i think you have to call. However, if it was bet early and then he raise, you need to definitely consider mucking your str8. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Michael C, 15. Sep 2003 09:02 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks, I seem to remember that it was checked to him and he bet. He was second to act. I was watching the board and figured for a flush most likely but he had been showing 2 p and trips. Since the pot was quite large I called to be 100% sure that I was beat. I had laid down the best hand before, as many of us have doen have done. The 2 behind me folded. Something I am working on is to save the last bet or two. If I think I am behind I try to check it down. If I am wrong once in a $60 pot then I have to be right 9 times? math right? I was able to *bluff* at 3 times that night becase I was first to bet and I had bet my draw all the way. When I missed my draw I bet when I was heads up and 3 times they fodled. Once when all I could beat was a 10 high. Maybe they missed as well - one guy said I can't beat Q's and I thought *me neather* but he folded. :-) If we both missed I would rather that he fold. I saw a few pots go to A high that were pretty good size. I think that I flat bluffed one guy because of my very tight table image. Most pots had all but me. I had AKs and did not hit a thing on the flop. I bet and all folded but him. I was first to act and bet Turn and River. Lucky for me that he folded on the River. He asked what I had, I lied and said *top pair*. Then made a note to myself that I could not try a bluff against him again that night. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, shorn, 15. Sep 2003 09:53 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yes on the math. But, if you never fold the winning hand you are playing too loosely. I agree on the bluffing/table image. You need to make sure what people think of you before trying something like that. Even if you get a free play in the blind and win a big pot hitting two pair with J2o, lots of folks won't remember that you were in the blind, so you can't bluff that table as profitably. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Michael C, 15. Sep 2003 10:49 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Thanks - That is a good point. When I fold what later turns out to be the best hand I first ask myself if I would have stayed that long? Ex. Pair of 6's took the pot over a pair of 5's and I had folded A7s before the turn and my 7's would have won. But, without spades I *correctly* folded. They both missed their st8 draws - there was a 5,6,7 on the board. For me to call the River I have to be able to beat most possible hands. It takes a lot of experience to *know* when. :-) I am still a work in progress. I do not want to be sheriff. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Some advice please, Michael C, 21. Sep 2003 09:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yesterday I must have won at least $1000 in the 14 hours of play. Unfortunately, I spent $1100 to win the $1000 and therefore I am down $100. My best hand was Kc7s - flop gave me top pair and a backdoor straight flush draw. Hit the St8Fls. :-) In the bb. I got several FHs and nut flushes and several straights and top pair etc. I have leaks in my game that I need to fix (duh). I can account for at least $100 in bad plays, not counting the bad beats which are normal; you have the best hand going in and lose to a 57o st8. Every time I called a raise pre-flop that I should not have cost me $3-9 more than just mucking the cards. See #3 below. * Improve my starting hand selection. Every time I called to see the turn when the odds were not good cost me $3. The flop hit me but not hard. Usually in the blinds. #3. * Improve my discipline and playing post-flop. Knowing when AA is not good and releasing it. Won once and lost twice. Every time I called on the River that I should have known that I was beat cost me $6. Ex. Board was JJTQQ and I had AJ - I should have checked the River and save $6 when the lady filled with QJ. I bet all the way and she called all the way. She raise me on the River and I felt complelled to call. :-( See #2 below. * Better hand reading. What is she calling me on? Am I really beat? Which hands can I really beat on the board. Every time I did not raise when I had the best hand cost me as well. See #4. * a little more courage, your flop bet it! So, If I can improve my play I can turn the loosing sessions into winning ones, maybe. This does not always work of course. I watched a player go from a negative 600 to zero and back down to negative 300. But the old man cashed out about $600. He played a lot of flush and st8 draws and hit them. The board was Q8T and 2 diamonds. I hit my st8 on the turn and bet it. A diamond hit the river and I was worried. One player said he does not have a flush but 2 pair, your st8 is good. I was going to bet anyway and call no matter what. He had Q8 and I won. Humm... I should have known that my st8 was good. They knew! * Experience is the best teacher. Pay attention and see who bets when. He bet his 2p. He would call with flush draw but not bet it. My game is still very much a work in progress. Playing for 14 hours and *only* being down $100 is better than being down more. I could not quite get back to even. I had bought in $300 over time and the closest I came to even was $290 in front of me. That was the time to leave! - Knowing when to leave. Finally just tired and the game got very bad; I left. Players started fighting over a seat. Any comments are appreciated. Sklansky - Getting the best of it. There are 8 mistakes in limit poker. 1. Checking when you should bet. 2. Betting when you should check. 3. Calling when you should fold. 4. Calling when you should raise. 5. Folding when you should call. 6. Folding when you should raise. 7. Raising when you should call. 8 Raising when you should fold. Page 59. I wish I could blame the seat or the cards - but we all know it is the player in the seat and the way s/he playes his/her cards! Michael | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Progress Report, Michael C, 22. Sep 2003 08:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yesterday I had a great day - resolved to follow the advice of the authors and the members on this site. The cards loved me and I did not take any long shots. I won $60 at 4-8 7stud while waiting for a new $3-6 game. Won $227 at $3-6 holdem and when the cards started running bad moved to $2-4 7stud and won $210. Could have won more at the 7stud game but was having too much fun and played hands that were not going any where. Joking around. EX: Pocket 8's and the next four made a Q high ST8. Advice: Don't do this - One hand I played just plain wrong in the $3-6 game. I was BB and got QQ and 1) did not raise and 2) did not bet the flop when a Q hit with a rainbow and 2 small cards. It got check around. So I gave a free card. I would have raised if someone had bet. Very dumb. SB was out so I bet the turn and then it was too late. They all called and an 8 on the River gave UTG a st8 with 57o. If I had 1) raised preflop and 2) bet the flop he *may* have folded. Very bad play. When I did that I stopped any such nonsense. If I hit the flop I bet. If I missed the flop based on Lee Jones WLLH I folded. That dumb play woke me up. Recap Great day. Most of the people in the 2-4 game were unhappy since I kept taking all their money but mostly there was some joking going on. I hit great cards and if I had played better I could have made more but would not have gotten the calls that I got. 3 players paid $4 to see if I really had my Q high ST8 in 6 cards when I had pocket 8's. I got a player to call me when I had a made K heart flush. The board was full of diamonds and I did not think he had a A diamond flush. I was right - 2 pair. He bet into me and I raise him and he called. Thanks to Lee Jones and all the members at this for their advice. My advice is when the cards do not run your way don't try to push it and when they do take advantage of it - A player was talking to me about my rush in the 3-6 game and she said that when she was winning $600 in 6-12 she would go on kind of a TILT. I said and play J6o and she said yes, exactly! Then she would start to lose because she though that she could win every hand. Take long shots. Michael | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|