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Server Time: 11/20/2008 9:44:28 AM PACIFIC |
 Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, mkpoker, 12. Sep 2003 18:25 | ||
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| Won a big pot here. The question to you is, am I good...or just lucky? (Note: I was obviously lucky here...the real question is did I play this right). Again, we're playing 3/6 HE at UB. In MP, I'm dealt 55. 3 folds to me. I limp as does one player behind me. BB, who is an absolutely manaic who dropped about $300 in about 90 minutes, checks. The LP player is new to the game. Flop comes 8h2s8d. BB (maniac) bets. I raise. LP reraises, which scares me. BB (maniac) calls. I call. Turn is 6c, which means no flush draws and only the slimmest of straight draws. BB checks, I bet, LP raises, BB folds. I gulp, sigh, and call. River is 5c. I check and raise (probably should have bet out in retrospect; would have been raised and then could have re-raised). LP calls. He holds A8 (top set, top kicker) which loses to my FH. So, should I have folded my 2-pair to his flop re-reraise (or turn raise) or did I do the right thing here? | ||
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| Re: Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, 4 POKER, 12. Sep 2003 19:04 | ||
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| Hi, When the flop is bet, you raise, and then get re-raised? I don't like that at all. I would however, peel one card off for one more small bet, but when the turn shows no improvement for me, I'm folding. There was no flush draw on the flop.....no straight draw on the flop....so I'd have to put him on either an 8 (for trips) or a higher pocket pair that he chose to limp in with perhaps, or even pocket dueces (for a FH on the flop), and decided that it was worth fast-playing it now due to all the aggresion that was taken place. True, you could still draw out on that hand, but I wouldn't call a big bet on the turn if I hadn't improved. I think the only hand you could have beat there is something like a duece with an Ace kicker, but if he had something like that, I highly doubt he would 3 bet the flop unless he's really aggresive. Even a hand like AK wouldn't be played that way, because if he was going to overplay a hand without flopping anything by 3 betting it, then he probably would have chosen to raise with AK before the flop. So yeah, you obviously got lucky (and good for you), but I really don't like your call on the turn. I understand what you were trying to accomplish on the flop by raising the EP maniac, but when you gained that information by the LP player......unless "he" was trying to get "you" to fold and take the hand heads up with perhaps just overcards, and play the hand against only the maniac, I would just have to realize now that although I 'did what I could' on the flop, my hand is just not good enough. I would have check-folded the turn, but then again, maybe you had some sort of a read on this guy.....don't know! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, Jav, 12. Sep 2003 19:54 | ||
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| Once again excellent post 4poker. I love the way you always explain your thinking behind your opinions. Even if someone disagrees, advice is so much more useful when you understand the thinking behind it. | ||
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| Re: Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, 4 POKER, 12. Sep 2003 22:22 | ||
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| on 12. Sep 2003 19:54 Jav wrote: > Once again excellent post 4poker. I love the way you always explain your thinking behind > your opinions. Even if someone disagrees, advice is so much more useful when you > understand the thinking behind it. Thanks for the compliment Jav. And ya know what?....if we all agreed every single time, then poker would be a mighty dull game to discuss! 4P- | ||
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| Re: Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, flintsword, 13. Sep 2003 12:59 | ||
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| I'm with Jay on this, ... Nice post. I think that a variety of high pairs could also have been played in that fashion by the LP reraiser, under the assumption that he has also marked the BB as a maniac and discounted his aggressiveness. This consideration would mute any ambition to push 55 further. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, DJpoker, 14. Sep 2003 08:57 | ||
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| In this case, I think you were very lucky. You limped into the pot, which was a good idea in a multi-way pot with 55. As you know, you are almost only going to win with a set. The only other flops that would keep you interested are 6-4-3, 4-3-2, and to a lesser extent 7-6-4 or 8-7-6 (due to higher straight draws). With an 8-2-8 flop and a reraise to your raise, I would figure I'm beat. My inclination would be to agree with 4poker and simply call the raise on the flop. However, I also know this is a -EV bet. You paid the A8 to draw out. Granted, you won this time, but in the long run, the 2 out solution will cost you money. Good luck out there. Djpoker | ||
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| Re: Am I Good...Or Just Lucky?, shorn, 15. Sep 2003 06:54 | ||
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| I have to say, I don't like most of your play on this hand. IT appears that you may be applying the Phil Hellmuth strategy which IMO doesn't work in LL HE. First, 55 is a hand that demands multi-way action. You want 5 players or more to see the flop. As the first caller from MP, not only are you notr likely to get enough action to make your call a good one, but you are asking for someone behind you to isolate you with a raise. This is disaster for your hand as from that point on, you will not be getting doo odds on your $$. So, the flop comes 828 giving you middle pair. The BB bets out and you raise (I like this play). But, you it is 3-bet behind you. Uh-oh...what do you know about this player? He limped too, so what hands could he have? You can probably eliminate KK and QQ as he would have raised pre-flop. Ditto for AK and AQ. What you can't eliminate are a lot of hands that you are drawing very thin too: JJ-66, T8, 98, 87, A8s. So, with that flop, it is likely that you are already behind. So what is the math to call. By my calculation you are only getting 10.5 to 1 to call the three bet, nowhere near the 23.5 to 1 you need to call to hit your 5. So, I most likely dump it right there. I completely don't understand the turn bet here after the guy behind you 3-bet the flop. What are you trying to accomplish? Betting basically staples to your forehead that there is no way that you have an 8 or an overpair for that matter, as you would checkraise with these hands. It smells to me like a pure bluff. Now, when he raises, why are you calling?? You have virtually nothing at this point! You suck out to your miracle on the river saving you. Played that well by check raising. But, as you point out, betting out again was potentially a better play as he most suredly would have raised with his trips/top kicker. I guess bottom line for me is that prior to the river card, you had invested $24 on this hand and at no point were you getting proper odds to call. I don't want to sound too harsh here, but if you continually play like that with these hands, you willgo broke in no time. Steve | ||
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