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Server Time: 2/13/2012 4:12:25 PM PACIFIC |
 AA in uncoordinated pot, mkpoker, 12. Sep 2003 06:57 | ||
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| A brutal night last night (must be a trend ,Lee), breaking my best-ever 7-session win streak. I called it quits after this hand. Had I stayed any longer, I suspect I'd have tilted so far I wouldn't be able to stand! The problem was this: with AA and a fairly uncoordinated board, my EP opponent was betting aggressively, but somewhat erratically. I couldn't figure out what he had and stayed in 'til the end. What do you think of my play here? Would you lay down AA in this situation or slow to the point of check-call to the end? 3/6 online HE. Table was loose and very aggressive (pre-flop raises EVERY hand), but several steps short of maniacal. I'm in MP, dealt AA. Two limpers to me. I raise. A total of 4 callers. Flop comes 59T rainbow. EP bets to me. 1 caller. I raise, LP folds. EP reraises. 1 call. I cap. EP calls; 1 fold. Turn is 2d, eliminating flush possibilities. Now EP checks, which confuses me. I bet, and he calls. At this point, I'm totally flummoxed. If he had TT, 99, 55 or even 9T...why not check-raise? Maybe he's on JJ? River is a J. EP checks. I think, VERY doubtful he's played this way with KQ or 78, so the river probably didn't help unless he had JJ. I bet--maybe he's on AT?--and he calls. He turns over 55 and takes the pot. Boys (and girls), lemme have it. What d'ya think? | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, shorn, 12. Sep 2003 07:37 | ||
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| I think you played it fine and he missed at least 1 bet there (a check raise on the turn). My guess is that since you capped the flop, he was worried about you holding TT or 99 yourself, but he didn't want to fold his set. I think you have to bet AA when he checks the turn, but you might check the river just in case he was slowplaying and waiting until then to hit you. After all, you still only had 1 pair. If I were holding the 55, you would have been charged more somewhere in the hand. :) | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, JaggedEj, 12. Sep 2003 09:24 | ||
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| he missed a bet, but i think 55 had a right o be concerned about 99 or TT being out there and slowing down was probably the right thing. I don't see anything particularly odd about his play. | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, Mark Barnett II, 12. Sep 2003 08:49 | ||
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| ok now nowhere do you say what kind of player you think your opponent is other than aggressive (and keeping you off balance could be a good thing) lets assume for a moment that he is as good as you are on the flop he comes out firing with his set, you raise to protect your AA he reraises assuming he has the best hand and now you cap it, what hands can he put you on? JJ unlikely as too many over pairs possible out there, QQ maybe, KK more likely, AA likely, T9s for 2 pair (depending how he has watched your play possible to think this) same with 99 or TT *some do raise with these hands in certain situations* so by capping it you tell him you have a very strong hand, turn comes safe to him, he checks *maybe to check raise* you bet and maybe he got cold feet and just called, river comes jack and that card makes one of the hands he thought you might have more unlikely but more scary at the same time, he checks hoping to see your hand and when you bet he probably felt like he had to call but worried he wasnt the best hand. ok now from your point of view what did his reraise on the flop tell you? depending again on how much you had studied him, trips, 2 pair or overpair personally i would lean more towards trips or 2 pair cause no raise before flop, that being said i would probably not cap it, his check on the turn would confuse me also, what kind of hand could he 3 bet the flop and then check when just about the most innocent card in the deck hits? i would give serious thought to checking also *afraid of check raise* this is a battle you always have to wage when heads up in position how much are you giving up by not betting and maybe letting them make their hand versus being check raised. on the river what hands could your opponent logically have that your hand beats? JJ has now been ruled out, QQ and KK yes but again where was the raise before the flop? any other hands you can beat that he would have? so checking on the river makes sense to me just show your hand if you win the pot there great if not save a bet *and those hands that you lose too which ones is he gonna fold for one more bet?* on a serious side note i LOVE the fact you got up and walked away, this is why online is so great for serious players, you can leave the table take a nice break cool off get under control and come back and leave the hand behind you. | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, Jav, 12. Sep 2003 09:56 | ||
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| I think there was nothing you could do. He might have been scared you had a bigger set, though I don't think that's a winning attitude. I think he should have led out on the turn as well (you showed enough strength that I probably wouldn't have check-raised the turn if I was him). But sometimes you get beat like that. With that board, there is no way you should have folded. I don't think you did anything wrong, you just got caught in a bad hand. | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, noiseboy, 12. Sep 2003 10:46 | ||
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| Since you weren't sure what he had by the river, I might have check-called since I haven't improved yet. This avoids the crying call I have if he raises me after I bet the river. However, betting the river might be good too if you know your player well enough to know that he won't raise the river w/o something better than a 1 pair hand. That would still be a difficult laydown. Overall, I think you played the hand very well as I will never criticize anyone for being aggressive. Aggression is a good thing, and sometimes you are just going to run into a set and lose some chips. The good news is that when you have a set you can play it aggressive, and to your opponents, it won't look any different than how you would play a big pocket pair, so they might be more inclined to pay you off if they can beat one pair. | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, LJH, 12. Sep 2003 11:02 | ||
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| MKPOKER, I THINK HE PLAYED A GREAT HAND, AND FOOLED YOU COMPLETELY. LJH | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, shorn, 12. Sep 2003 11:04 | ||
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| Except that he could have checkraised the turn and bet the river for 1 extra bet from mk. So, I don't think Mr. 55 maximized his earnings. I don't buy the argument that anyone with TT would cap the flop. They would be waiting for the turn to raise for bigger bets. The most logical things to put mk on are AA-QQ, as JJ is probably too weak to cap the flop with. So, I think 55 missed an extra bet on the turn. He would likely still get the call on the river too when the Jack falls. | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, mkpoker, 12. Sep 2003 11:16 | ||
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| on 12. Sep 2003 11:02 LJH wrote: > MKPOKER, I THINK HE PLAYED A GREAT HAND, AND FOOLED YOU COMPLETELY. LJH I was fooled--totally flummoxed--I willfully admit. What this because he played a great hand or because he was himself confused? I don't know. Does it really matter? Probably not. He won, I lost. Next time, I'll flop the set! | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, mroban, 12. Sep 2003 11:02 | ||
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| mk: Wow thats a weird one...first of all I am not an expert and would have done (and been confused) exactly as you were. My first inclination with a board like that would have been he made a set. But, since you reraised him, he must of feared a higher set. Still odd, but it is the only expanation I can think of why he didn't check raise. And its bizarre that he would have feared a 99 b/c you reraised him preflop. A reraise with a preflop is slightly odd (I would think) other than for our slightly maniacal friends (but not out of the question for a good player playing AGAINST a maniac or against bad players who raise anything preflop. Anyway, in a really loose game like you described with lots of preflop raising with questionable hands, I would have changed my thinking to a QJ playing the 9T straight draw and tried to lose you on the flop. So yeah, while my first instinct would have been a set, his strange betting indicated some kind of straight draw that he bet out on the flop hoping to win it there. I would have done exactly what you did, but probably would have just checked and called one bet on the river (I forgot if you did that or not). | ||
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| Re: AA in uncoordinated pot, 4 POKER, 12. Sep 2003 15:12 | ||
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| Being that the EP player was an aggresive type and had capped the flop, but then turned into a 'check and call' mode on the turn and the river, I would have bet my AA when he checked it to me on the turn, and I also would bet my AA on the river as well. When he doesn't bet the hand again on the turn, or at least go for a check-raise there.......what are you supposed to do with pocket Aces now, check it back to him? I wouldn't. What about his river check to you in a heads up play?....check it back again? I "probably" wouldn't either in heads up play. Sorry, but if he played his hand that wimpishly on the turn AND the river.......(especially "knowing' how aggresieve he really is), I would have to bet my AA for value there. "Show me a better hand". I think he was a "weak" aggresive player.......obviously not a solid/aggresive player. He missed bets there for sure (IMO), and you got lucky to not have lost more than you should have. I'm not going to always back off with AA just because there's an aggresive opponent in the hand with me. He could have *easily* held a straight draw, or top pair as well, and played it the same exact way (in which he probably *will* play it that way the next time if he gets a flop like that with top pair).........so with players like that, you'll just never know *CLEARLY* where you stand (unless your flop is really, really good).....BUT, that still won't change my opinion on betting the turn and the river with pocket Aces; more often than NOT, your hand is going to be good against a player like that who is extremely aggresive and then backs off. If he was a solid player who had flopped a set, I'm pretty sure he would have lead into you on the turn if he wasn't planning on check-raising you. If he was an extremely passive type player and had played his hand that strongly on the flop, then *perhaps* I would have given him a small set or two pair like 10's and 9's. (mind you, I'm saying a passive player, not a tight player) because a tight player probably wouldn't enter a pot with 10-9 or 5-5 from an EP)!! 4 POKER | ||
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