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Server Time: 11/20/2008 9:31:19 AM PACIFIC |
 Best NL Advice Ever?, Bart Mann, 10. Sep 2003 11:42 | ||
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| This weekend I have a big No-Limit tournament coming up. I've been studying, reading books, playing live games and some online games for several months in preparation for this one event. I want to walk into the tournament with a clear head, knowing that I've prepared as best I can and just let my ability take over. I find that in situations like this, it's easiest to walk in with a few key focal points and let the rest just "happen." So I'm hoping some of you could throw me some advice--a statement or focal point you believe really helped your game over the years. One of my personal favorites is from Doyle: "If you're involved in an all-in pot, make sure you're the one who pushed his chips into the middle first." That single statement has really helped my game as of late, but there must be more nuggets out there. Anyone care to share? Thanks in advance for your help, guys. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, shorn, 10. Sep 2003 11:45 | ||
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| Along those same lines: "A bettor or raiser be; a caller never be." Also: "Every additional chip you win is worth less than the previous one and every additional chip you lose is worth more than the previous one." In essence, protect your chips at all costs. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, SeanCandy, 10. Sep 2003 11:50 | ||
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| From Cloutier and McEvoy's book "Championship Pot-limit and No-limit holdem" "Don't chase drawing hands" Basically if the flop doesn't hit you on a drawing hand get out. You may even have odds, but if you don't hit your hand by the river you may be seriously short-stacked or out of the tournament. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, shorn, 10. Sep 2003 11:57 | ||
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| Good one Sean. TJ states that he rarely even plays drawing hands in a NL tourny. For the most part, this is probably correct reasoning. I guess my mantra is: Don't enter a pot with a hand that you aren't willing to lose all your chips on. This is a little extreme, but I think we all get the point. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, FiveV, 10. Sep 2003 12:34 | ||
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| Do not lead into a group of people when you are weak. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, EC, 10. Sep 2003 13:01 | ||
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| "Don't go all-in when you flop trip tens but have a weak kicker." - Eli Cotham on 10. Sep 2003 11:42 Bart Mann wrote: > This weekend I have a big No-Limit tournament coming up. I've been studying, > reading books, playing live games and some online games for several months in > preparation for this one event. I want to walk into the tournament with a clear > head, knowing that I've prepared as best I can and just let my ability take > over. I find that in situations like this, it's easiest to walk in with a few > key focal points and let the rest just "happen." > > So I'm hoping some of you could throw me some advice--a statement or focal > point you believe really helped your game over the years. One of my personal > favorites is from Doyle: "If you're involved in an all-in pot, make sure you're > the one who pushed his chips into the middle first." That single statement has > really helped my game as of late, but there must be more nuggets out there. > Anyone care to share? > > Thanks in advance for your help, guys. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, Michael C, 10. Sep 2003 13:05 | ||
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| These guys give very good advice - thanks all. Remember an all-in without the nuts on the river is a 30-70% to get kicked out. So to call an all-in you need a much better hand than to go all-in. I have seen players go all-in with AQ and get beat when risking there whole stack to win 5% of their stack. AA only wins 33% of the time. Heck my AA got cracked when a 10 hit the flop. Also, Stack size is very important. Try not to go up against bigger stacks that can bust you. Let bigger stacks attack small stacks while you watch.. But, you can not sit on the sidelines too long. I think I read that 15 times the BB is a short stack in NL. Where you are likely to blind out. I have not won a live NL yet so take my advice with a gain of salt. I usually come in 2 or 3 out of the money. A pro told me that until there are no more re-buys you can play looser but after that you need to tighten up (120 players - I finished 26 and he 30). Paid top 20. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, Jav, 10. Sep 2003 14:10 | ||
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| No need to overbet the pot! | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, GoBears, 10. Sep 2003 15:50 | ||
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| Don't limp in with a hand that you won't call with if it gets raised behind you. For me, that would be low A-x suited. This is especially important once the blinds start to get bigger. Go Bears | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, SendMoney, 10. Sep 2003 18:16 | ||
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| Watch out for hands like AJs and JJ - they seem strong, but they're just strong enough to get you knocked out. While the same is true of many hands such as AKs or AKo, at least with Big Slick you're only really a huge underdog to one hand, AA, and you're a 2 to 1 underdog against KK, while you're about a coin flip against all other pocket pairs, and you will dominate weaker aces. The strong Jack hands present more problems however. With JJ you area 4 to 1 dog versus AA KK or QQ, and you're slightly better than a coinflip against any AK or AQ. Any AJ, suited or not is even more problematic, you're have big trouble against way too many hands such as AA KK QQ JJ AK or AQ, and once again you're only about a coinflip against pocket pairs 1010 thru 22. The only hand you'll really dominate is A10 thru A2 or hands like KJ or QJ. I'm not saying you should never play hands like AJs or JJ, but just don't bet the farm on them and if you have to go all-in before the flop with them try to do it in situations that do not put your tourney life at risk, say against two small stacks in the blinds. However when you're in desperation mode I have no problem throwing it in with either of these hands - just try not to make the mistake I usually make of overplaying a good yet beatable hand into a comparable stack or someone who has you covered when you have a decent stack, you're getting somewhat close to the money and the simple fact is, you don't HAVE to play them, and you certainly don't HAVE to risk everything on a fish hook. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, Dr. Acula, 11. Sep 2003 04:45 | ||
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| This advice is two days late.. :-) Multi tourney at PP, blinds at 50/100 and its folded to no 5, he ups it to 550 or so, and I figure I can make him lay down his hand by making it 1600 to go with my JJ in cutoff position. Well, the original raiser is the only one calling the 1600, and when rainbow rags hit the flop and he checks it to me, I all-in myself counting on driving out two overcards. Needless to say my opponent held AA and I had to surgically remove my gills or learn how to breath under water. I think this serves as a decent example of how JJ can ruin your day. My advice: If you're planning to play good poker, try and do it for the whole tourney.. It doesn't take more than one hand to make you look like the chump. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, Michael C, 11. Sep 2003 15:37 | ||
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| We all seem to have JJ stories. NL 40 players - 13 left - short stacked waiting for a good hand B4 I blind out (500/1000). JJ UTG and go all in with my $1850 hoping to steal the blinds and antes. All fold to one player (BB) who flips over AA. ! Needless to say no J's and out 3 off the money. B Careful - JJ was a desperate move on my part. Have fun. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, SmellsLikeVictory, 11. Sep 2003 11:35 | ||
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| A decent short article on NLHE: http://www.cs.ualberta.ca/~darse/Papers/no-limit-tnmt-primer.html | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, Jav, 11. Sep 2003 13:01 | ||
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| For a short article on NL tournament play, I think it was very good. You could do exactly what that article says and be a pretty strong player. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, Andrew Wells, 11. Sep 2003 15:19 | ||
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| Never try to represent a hand your opponent can't put you on. | ||
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| Re: Best NL Advice Ever?, ADAM THE EXPERT, 12. Sep 2003 04:58 | ||
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| WELL, BART, THIS SUBJECT IS CERTAINLY ONE THAT IS DIFFICULT TO TEACH, IN JUST A LITTLE POSTING, BUT I WILL TRY. I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU LEARN A FEW FORMULAS, TO KNOW THE ODDS OF ANYONE POSSESSING A BIGGER PAIR THAN YOU, THIS HELPS ME A LOT. HERE IT IS: 220 DIVIDED BY THE NUMBER OF LARGER PAIRS POSSIBLE, DIVIDED BY THE NUMBER OF PLAYERS LEFT. SO, IF YOU ARE ON THE BUTTON, WITH 1010, THERE IS A 1-27 (APPROX) CHANCE OF EITHER BLIND HAVING A LARGER PAIR. AS LONG AS SOMEONE DOES NOT HAVE A LARGER PAIR, YOU WILL BE THE FAVORITE. NOT BY MUCH, BUT THE FAVORITE SO, YOU MUST WEIGH THE ODDS OF SOMEONE HAVING A LARGER PAIR, AGAINST THE ODDS OF THEM CALLING WITH A WORSE HAND. IF NO ONE WILL CALL WITH LESS THAN KINGS, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO PUT IN ALL YOUR CHIPS WITH QUEENS, EVEN IF THERE IS ONLY ONE PLAYER LEFT, AND THUS A 110-1 SHOT AGAINST THEM HAVING ACES OR KINGS. ALWAYS REMEMBER, THAT POKER IS ABOUT THE RELATIVE CHANCES OF SOMEONE HAVING A BETTER HAND, VRS, THE WILLINGNESS OF THEM CALLING WITH A WORSE HAND, VRS. WHAT YOU STAND TO GAIN, VRS. WHAT YOU STAND TO LOSE I LIKE TO USE THIS EXAMPLE, AS A TEACHING TOOL, TO SHOW THIS CONCEPT. SOMETIMES, I WILL USE AN EXTREME, IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION, TO ILLISTRATE A POINT. SUPPOSE YOU WERE PLAYING IN A MILLION DOLLAR BUY IN, NO LIMIT DRAW POKER GAME. THERE ARE NO BLINDS, NO ANTES, AND NO TIME COLLECTION. THE FIRST PERSON TO LOSE THEIR CHIPS, GETS SLOWLY CUT TO PIECES WITH A CHAINSAW. YOU ARE LOCKED IN THE GAME, NO ONE MAY EVER LEAVE, NO ONE MAY EVER CASH OUT. WHAT HAND WOULD YOU OPEN WITH? NONE, EVEN IF YOU GOT A PAT ROYAL FLUSH, YOU MAY ACCIDENTLY DROP YOUR CARDS ON THE FLOOR, AND HAVE A DEAD HAND, SO WHY RISK IT? (IF NOTHING TO GAIN, THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION TO TAKE A RISK) OK, NOW WE CHANCE IT, TO WHERE THE FIRST PERSON TO OPEN, GETS TO LEAVE WITH THEIR MILLION, EVEN IF NO ONE CALLS. NOW, YOU WOULD REVERT TO MY FORMULA (AS IT APPLIES TO DRAW POKER,) AND DETERMINE THE ODDS OF SOMEONE HAVING A BETTER HAND MILLION DOLLARS, AND FREEDOM, VRS. SLOW PAINFUL DEATH. LARGE QUADS, WOULD BE ABOUT THE MINIMUM HAND. BUT, NOW, WHAT HAND WOULD YOU CALL WITH!! HERE IS THE PERFECT TEACHING TOOL, TO COMPLETLY PROVE THE DOYLE BRUNSON LESSON. ADDITIONALLY, I WOULD RECOMMEND YOU PICKING UP A COPY OF DAVID SKLANSKY'S : TOURNAMENT POKER, FOR ADVANCED PLAYERS. IF YOU HAVE THE TIME, BEFORE THE TOURNEMENT. IN MY OPNION, MUCH OF HIS WORK, DOES NOT APPLY TO THE REAL WORLD, AS PEOPLE ARE VERY WILLING TO PLAY ANY DARN WAY THEY WANT TO, IN LIVE GAMES, WHERE THE IS NOT THAT MUCH MONEY INVOLVED. BUT, IN THE MICROCOSM OF A BIG NO LIMIT TOURNAMENT, THEY PLAY MUCH MORE LIKE MR. M. AND MR. S TEACH THAT THEY DO. SO, THEIR TEACHINGS IN THE AREA, ARE VERY VALID INDEED. IF THERE ARE ANY CONCEPTS FROM THIS BOOK, THAT YOU DO NOT FOLLOW, POST THEM, AND I WILL TRY (IF I SEE THEM) TO ANSWER | ||
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