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Server Time: 8/29/2008 9:43:36 PM PACIFIC |
 I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS..., socal_1111, 8. Sep 2003 23:13 | ||
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| I can't get enough knowledge and advice from you guys. I haven't played much NL HE, but I DID enjoy it quite a bit when I played. I've played much more LL, which seems like I have to very discipline on which hands to play due to all the crazy "bet-on-anything" players. What is the main difference between NL and LL. I'm reading a lot of posts comparing the two. How will the betting differ, etc? Thanks- | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS..., Boftx, 9. Sep 2003 01:03 | ||
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| on 8. Sep 2003 23:13 socal_1111 wrote: > What is the main difference between NL and LL. I'm reading a lot of posts > comparing the two. How will the betting differ, etc? > Thanks- IMO, the biggest difference is that the bluff is far more effective in NL than LL play, at least online. But this is ONLY after you have established your "table image". In particular, a bet of about 25% - 35% of your stack will tend to drive the river rats out when you have a good hand but there is a good draw on the board. If you get called after that, and the turn brings 3 to a suit or straight, you should seriously considering folding if you get action. Also, it seems to me that pot odds have little meaning in NL. Instead, stack size seems to matter a lot more, at least when it comes to tourney play. | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS...(sorry long), WilliamS, 9. Sep 2003 06:22 | ||
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| Socal, In my opinion, they are two completely different games and should be looked at as such. A style that may be EXTREMELY profitable in one, may be very unprofitable in the other. Botfx, said that bluffs are more likely to work in NL and I agree. I also agree they may have a very negative expectation in the FISHY NL online games. In NL, for example, a bluff may work 7 out of 10 times (strictly hypothetical here), but the player may lose his whole bankroll those 3 times it didn't work. In the limit game, for example, the same bluff may only work 3 times out of 10 but the player may have made a subsantial profit on those 10 hands. Botfx also said that he didn't see the value of pot odds in NL. I have to disagree here as well. In NL, I feel the game is ALL about pot odds; or at least IMPLIED pot odds. I think this is one of the most important concepts of NL, knowing when it is profitable to call a bet on a draw and knowing when the cost is just TOO HIGH for the expected gain if you hit. Another major difference, (again in my opinion) is the type of hands a player should value. In limit, top pair, top kicker deserves to be played very aggressively. In NL, it may deserve to be played aggressively, but it can LOSE tons of money if a player can't lay it down. In limit, if someone catches 2 pair or a set you will lose money, but you won't cripple your bankroll. So, a player has to realize when it is time to protect a hand and when it is time to get away from a hand. I'm no pro, nor do I pretend to be one; but these two games with all their similarities have to be looked at with completely different perspectives. A geo prism and a HUMMER are both automobiles, but you would never pretend they were the same. In my opinion that is about the same as LLHE compared to NL. Will | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS...(sorry long), Boftx, 9. Sep 2003 09:14 | ||
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| on 9. Sep 2003 06:22 WilliamS wrote: > Botfx also said that he didn't see the value of pot odds in NL. I have to disagree > here as well. In NL, I feel the game is ALL about pot odds; or at least IMPLIED pot > odds. I think this is one of the most important concepts of NL, knowing when it is > profitable to call a bet on a draw and knowing when the cost is just TOO HIGH for the > expected gain if you hit. Will, you are absolutely right on that. I wasn't thinking in those terms but I realize you stated correctly what I was floundering at. | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS..., shorn, 9. Sep 2003 09:12 | ||
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| The biggest difference is the ability to manipulate the odds of the pot by the size of your bet so that your opponents make large mathematical errors. There are some people who will chase all the way for 1 or 2 bets cold in limit and you can't do a darn thing about it. But, in NL you can bet the size of the pot or more so that in case they are stupid and call, you have given them terrible terrible odds. An example: I was playing at a NL $100 table on party the other night when i was dealt KK in MP. There were three limpers ahead of me, and and I made it $15 to go (with $9 in the pot already, i would have been happy to win it right there). One player flat called the $15 and everyone else folded. So, there was $37 in the pot ($2 rake) for a flop of Q97. I bet $40, making the odds of the person to draw slightly worse than 2 to 1 (calling $40 to win $77). He called all-in and turned over TT!! Unfortunately, he turned another Ten and won, but that isn't the point. The point is that you can manipulate the odds so that in the long run you win. | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS..., Michael C, 10. Sep 2003 07:16 | ||
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| Very nicely put, shorn, I think the best book on this subject is 'getting the best of it' by David Sklansky. I am learning to play NLHE at pokerschool and I have though along the same lines. Giving the other player to worst of it by betting the correct amount. Usually pot or more. Your real life example is very clear - thanks. | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS..., socal_1111, 9. Sep 2003 19:33 | ||
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| Thank you guys... much appreciated! Definitely helps a lot! | ||
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| Re: I CAN'T STOP ASKING QUESTIONS..., ADAM THE EXPERT, 11. Sep 2003 07:26 | ||
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| SOCAL, I WILL BE HAPPY TO HELP YOU, BUT PLEASE FOLLOW ADAM'S RULES: NO ABBREVIATIONS!!!!!! YOU CAN'T BE LAZY, AND EXPECT TO WIN AT POKER, SO START PRACTICING NOT TAKING THE LAZY WAY OUT!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "LL" I WOULD GUESS "LOW LIMIT" BUT AM NOT 100% SURE. THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO, ARE TWO VAST FOR THIS FORUM. I WILL TELL YOU, THAT SHOULD YOU WISH TO PLAY NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM, THE BEST GAME WITHIN 1000 MILES OF YOU, IS IN VENTURA, CA. WELL WORTH THE DRIVE IN 1998 WHEN I WAS LIVING IN sACRAMENTO, I DROVE ALL NIGHT, TO GET TO THIS GAME AT 8 A.M. STARTING TIME, THAT'S HOW GOOD IT IS. PLAYER'S CLUB, VENTURA, LOOK IT UP. | ||
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