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Server Time: 9/4/2008 10:19:38 PM PACIFIC |
 First thing you notice?, osucbj04, 8. Sep 2003 22:03 | ||
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| What is the first thing you experienced players look for when sitting at a table? Do the ones that try to have a conversation pre-tourny play differrently than the ones that just sit down and stare? I read how a player stacks his chips can be an indication of the type of player he/she is. Are these realistic measures? | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, 4 POKER, 8. Sep 2003 23:24 | ||
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| I look for a game that has alot of chips on the table and I try not to sit down with too many pros, or players that I have too much respect for. I like a game where the players are having a good time and there's alot of talking going on. I also like to play at "certain hours" where I think that alot of the players may have been playing all day. (usually around the midnight hour). As far as how a player stacks his chips........don't rely on that as a "definite" tell. I know several really solid players who keep their chips in a complete messy and unorganized manner; and you will also find many bad players who stack their chips like perfect soldiers! 4P- on 8. Sep 2003 22:03 osucbj04 wrote: > What is the first thing you experienced players look for when sitting at a > table? Do the ones that try to have a conversation pre-tourny play differrently > than the ones that just sit down and stare? I read how a player stacks his chips > can be an indication of the type of player he/she is. Are these realistic > measures? | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, DallasPokerFan, 9. Sep 2003 08:37 | ||
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| I agree, 4 POKER, mostly, on the chips comment. I agree that you can't make a good guess on a player's experience by looking at how he keeps his chips or whether or not he can stack/roll/whatever cool maneuver them. One "good guess," though, I think you can make is whether or not the chips are stacked. A player who stacks his chips wants to be more aware of his session's W-L than someone who doesn't. If the player plays poorly, you can bet he's there for fun, can lose his stack, and still leave feeling entertained. If the player plays well, then he's a low- to mid-level moneymaker. Corroborating statement: I've never, ever seen a player stack his chips messily at the WPT or WSOP tables on television. Exception: if a player plays well and doesn't stack his chips so that they're easily counted, RUN, don't walk, away from that table. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Michael C, 9. Sep 2003 18:30 | ||
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| At pokerschool.com a Rolf Slotboom recommence that you always stack your chips exactly the same way each time. I don't - I constantly restack them after a win and as the amount goes up or down. Always neat. I am not a good player so take that at what it is worth. on 9. Sep 2003 08:37 DallasPokerFan wrote: > on a player's experience by looking at how he keeps his chips or whether or not he can stack/roll/whatever cool maneuver them. . | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Barry T, 9. Sep 2003 02:11 | ||
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| Hi. Tournaments are much tougher to read than ring games because you do not enter a table already in progress. Youy should be ab le to judge how comfortable people are with the procedures, chip values, drawing for the button, etc. Talking is not a reliable guide, and may be used to confuse you. Experienced players rarely sit down ten minutes early. Either they are talking to friends, or they are somewhere getting in the correct frame of mind. Once the cards are dealt, thing becomer clearer. How people look at cards, handle chips, look at the flop, protect their hands and many others are all useful indications. BarryT | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Formless, 9. Sep 2003 07:04 | ||
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| So if I were to sit down at random limit in a random cardroom... Look for the guy with the biggest stack of chips. More often than not he is the fish. Is is a happy table or a serious table? This correlates strongly to a good game or an unprofitable one. How many players are wearing sunglasses? You should be discretely watching everything for the first orbit and be able to determine who is playing what preflop, betting patterns, but don't put too much weight on your initial analysis since your sample is small. It's true, if you can't spot the sucker, it's you. After a half hour in a full Holdem table you should be able to find at least a couple of fish or find another table. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Roy Cooke, 9. Sep 2003 08:04 | ||
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| I try to gauge my opponents by personality traits and tells....Can they shuffle chips? Do they handle cards well?....Are there any other things in conversation or actions that would indicate they are experienced players....Are they cocky? Shy? What do you think their attitude is toward money? People play in a manner that is in tune with their personality. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 8. Sep 2003 22:03 osucbj04 wrote: > What is the first thing you experienced players look for when sitting at a > table? Do the ones that try to have a conversation pre-tourny play differrently > than the ones that just sit down and stare? I read how a player stacks his chips > can be an indication of the type of player he/she is. Are these realistic > measures? | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, gary ford, 9. Sep 2003 14:29 | ||
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| on 9. Sep 2003 08:04 Roy Cooke wrote: > I try to gauge my opponents by personality traits and tells....Can they shuffle > chips? Do they handle cards well?....Are there any other things in conversation or > actions that would indicate they are experienced players....Are they cocky? Shy? What > do you think their attitude is toward money? People play in a manner that is in tune > with their personality. > > Life is Good :-) > Roy Cooke > People play as people are. Roy., you are in sales and a type that involves a lot of reading people. Chances are, your poker skills came in and continue to come in, handy in your real estate career. In lower limit games, socio-economic status can be key. Money from the pocket or money from the wallet can be a tight -loose indicator. Consider the whole person--manner of speech, dress, fingernails, familiarity with rules, ability to hold cards properly, sobriety or lack thereof. The list could go on and on. Evaluate them as people first and poker players second. Everybody has a weakness. Find it and exploit it. Fuel the boom --Gary Ford > on 8. Sep 2003 22:03 osucbj04 wrote: > > What is the first thing you experienced players look for when sitting at a > > table? Do the ones that try to have a conversation pre-tourny play differrently > > > than the ones that just sit down and stare? I read how a player stacks his chips > > > can be an indication of the type of player he/she is. Are these realistic > > measures? | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, stdioh, 9. Sep 2003 10:54 | ||
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| I've heard a million times that players who make neat stacks are tight and that players who make messy stacks are loose, but in general I think that's neither here nor there. If a player is doing chip tricks, then it means that he spends a lot of time at the tables, so he's either good or very stupid. If a player is building castles and structures, it indicates that he is bored so he's probably solid, but also not paying attention. ... like somebody who reads the paper while playing. If a player is sitting in a cash game with green and black chips, but the game is 10-20, then he screams out as a fish who just got off of pai gow. That's about it. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, DallasPokerFan, 9. Sep 2003 12:56 | ||
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| I like pai gow ... | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, stdioh, 10. Sep 2003 10:25 | ||
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| I'd make a career of pai gow if there were players bad enough to actually play their hands incorrectly. The problem with the game is that it is very easy for everybody to play correctly and all the money to filter off to the house. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, EC, 9. Sep 2003 13:51 | ||
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| And if a player is standing up, staring at a TV monitor and yelling "Go 6! Go 6! Go 6!" while everyone at the table is telling him it's his turn to act than you're at Hollywood Park, and a race is on. Still not sure what that tell means. Eli on 9. Sep 2003 10:54 stdioh wrote: > I've heard a million times that players who make neat stacks are tight and that > players who make messy stacks are loose, but in general I think that's neither here > nor there. If a player is doing chip tricks, then it means that he spends a lot of > time at the tables, so he's either good or very stupid. > > If a player is building castles and structures, it indicates that he is bored so > he's probably solid, but also not paying attention. ... like somebody who reads the > paper while playing. > > If a player is sitting in a cash game with green and black chips, but the game is > 10-20, then he screams out as a fish who just got off of pai gow. > > That's about it. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Michael C, 9. Sep 2003 18:48 | ||
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| The player next to me was watching the TV more than the flop but he seemed to do good at the table - cashed out 2 racks - and hurt my ears. What bothers me is when players keep switching seats. I don't know if they are trying to isolate the fish (me) or if they think the seat is lucky? I was in seat 8 and players did musical chairs. One player moved 3 times an old man then finally ended up in seat 10 after playing 7, 1 and 3. I beat him when he was in seat 3 but lost when he moved to 10? Missed my flush draw that I should not have been heads up with in the first place. So I left. 3-6 Any thoughts? Should I use that as a sign to switch or leave? on 9. Sep 2003 13:51 EC wrote: > And if a player is standing up, staring at a TV monitor and yelling "Go 6! Go 6! Go 6!" > while everyone at the table is telling him it's his turn to act than you're at Hollywood > Park, and a race is on. Still not sure what that tell means. > > > Eli > > on 9. Sep 2003 10:54 stdioh wrote: > > I've heard a million times that players who make neat stacks are tight and that > > players who make messy stacks are loose, but in general I think that's neither here > > nor there. If a player is doing chip tricks, then it means that he spends a lot of > > time at the tables, so he's either good or very stupid. > > > > If a player is building castles and structures, it indicates that he is bored so > > he's probably solid, but also not paying attention. ... like somebody who reads the > > paper while playing. > > > > If a player is sitting in a cash game with green and black chips, but the game is > > 10-20, then he screams out as a fish who just got off of pai gow. > > > > That's about it. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, stdioh, 10. Sep 2003 10:28 | ||
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| There are good times to switch seats to gain position on somebody in particular, but most players do it out of superstition. I'll change into the middle seats if position isn't a factor so that I can see everybody at the table and maximize my information. I'll also sometimes play musical chairs around the table going left. The reson for this is that I pay fewer blinds. Over the course of a 12 hour session I might move 8 times, passing by 12 people (moving only one live player at a time), sneaking away from the button as I go. What does this gain me in EV? Maybe a total of 1 BB. But I find it fun to use creative ways of getting extra bets like this. Though lately I haven't been bothering with the musical chairs game. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Michael C, 10. Sep 2003 10:49 | ||
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| Thanks for you input - I will only move out of seats 1 and 10 to see the players better - I like 3 and 7 for the view. I won't move from the blind because where I play you need to post $4 (both blinds). I read that you want certain types of players on your left or your right - forgot which. I guess maniac's on your right and loose passive on you left or do I have it backwards? If the LP is on your right you can raise him for an extra bet. Any ideas? | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, EC, 10. Sep 2003 11:55 | ||
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| You want loose players on your right on tight on your left- think of the same way you screw in anything- right tighty, lefty loosy. Reason is if a loose player is to your left you can react to their crazy shenanigans rather than get stuck with them raising behind you when you don't want them to. Tight players not only won't raise you much, but you can get the button more often since they'll fold more often. Eli n 10. Sep 2003 10:49 Michael C wrote: > Thanks for you input - I will only move out of seats 1 and 10 to see the players better - I like 3 and 7 > for the view. I won't move from the blind because where I play you need to post $4 (both blinds). I > read that you want certain types of players on your left or your right - forgot which. I guess maniac's > on your right and loose passive on you left or do I have it backwards? > > If the LP is on your right you can raise him for an extra bet. Any ideas? | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Michael C, 10. Sep 2003 12:40 | ||
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| Very good to remember. So RT-LL is in relation to myself. I should be left of loose and right of tight. Got it. I was seat 7 and a knockout in 6 (kept showing me her cards) and a loser in 4 and a big stack lose player in 3. So I am on his left after the SB has passed me. That means that he acts before me. If the button is on 3,4,5,6 then I am in bad position related to him. I had a TIGHT player in seat 8. If he raised I folded. When I was button and raised he folded (he folded a lot). But mostly 6-8 saw the flop. Seat 3 liked J2o and 69o. Good advice. Thanks need to pay more attention to where the button is. on 10. Sep 2003 11:55 EC wrote: > You want loose players on your right and tight on your left- think of the same way you screw in anything- right tighty, lefty loosy. | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, EC, 10. Sep 2003 13:06 | ||
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| I think we're thinking opposite direction- think of it from the dealer's POV, not your left or right. Basically if you're in seat 7 you want a loose player in 6, and a tight player in 8. Not sure if that's what you were getting at below, my brain is fried so I didn't try to comprehend. Eli on 10. Sep 2003 12:40 Michael C wrote: > Very good to remember. So RT-LL is in relation to myself. I should be left of loose and right of tight. Got it. > > I was seat 7 and a knockout in 6 (kept showing me her cards) and a loser in 4 and a big stack lose player in 3. So > I am on his left after the SB has passed me. That means that he acts before me. If the button is on 3,4,5,6 then I > am in bad position related to him. > > I had a TIGHT player in seat 8. If he raised I folded. When I was button and raised he folded (he folded a lot). > > > But mostly 6-8 saw the flop. Seat 3 liked J2o and 69o. > > Good advice. Thanks need to pay more attention to where the button is. > > on 10. Sep 2003 11:55 EC wrote: > > You want loose players on your right and tight on your left- think of the same way you screw in anything- right > tighty, lefty loosy. > | ||
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| Re: First thing you notice?, Michael C, 10. Sep 2003 14:53 | ||
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| EC, We said the same thing - I was not clear with my example - thanks again. He was in 3 and I was in 7 so when the button (dealer) is 7, 8, 9, 10, 1, 2 he is on my right where he should be. When the D is 3, 4, 5, 6 I am out of position related to him. Page 33 Lee Jones, Winning Low Limit HOLD'EM "If there is a player who is very aggressive and raises a lot, you'd generally like to be on his left. That way, you'll see those raises coming before you act and can drop your marginal hands. If you sit to his right, too often you call one bet only to have him raise behind you and now you wish you had saved that bet." Thanks for reminding me of this. I pulled out his book and read this part again. The reason that I keep coming back to this issue is because when I was SB, BB, and UTG he would often raise. Too often I did not drop my marginal hands when in BB. I know this is getting long - apologize, but an improtant concept to get. Another game, I was in 8 - the old man moved from 7 to 1 to 10 so that he would be on my left most of the time. He loved to raise. Next time I will move to 1 when he moves to my left. As I said, this Saturday I will pay more attention to this while at my B&M. D - on 10. Sep 2003 13:06 EC wrote: > I think we're thinking opposite direction- think of it from the dealer's POV, not your left or right. Basically if > you're in seat 7 you want a loose player in 6, and a tight player in 8. Not sure if that's what you were getting at > below, my brain is fried so I didn't try to comprehend. > > Eli > > on 10. Sep 2003 12:40 Michael C wrote: > > Very good to remember. So RT-LL is in relation to myself. I should be left of loose and right of tight. Got it. > > > > I was seat 7 and a knockout in 6 (kept showing me her cards) and a loser in 4 and a big stack lose player in 3. So > > I am on his left after the SB has passed me. That means that he acts before me. If the button is on 3,4,5,6 then I > > am in bad position related to him. > > > > I had a TIGHT player in seat 8. If he raised I folded. When I was button and raised he folded (he folded a lot). > > > > > > But mostly 6-8 saw the flop. Seat 3 liked J2o and 69o. > > > > Good advice. Thanks need to pay more attention to where the button is. > > > > on 10. Sep 2003 11:55 EC wrote: > > > You want loose players on your right and tight on your left- think of the same way you screw in anything- right > > tighty, lefty loosy. > > | ||
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