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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:16:33 AM PACIFIC |
 Making $$ at LL, JonnyC, 8. Sep 2003 18:30 | ||
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| Hello all, I'm interested if anyone here makes money on a regular basis at 2-4 or 3-6 limits. I'm doing well in the NL game but the lower limits have been tough, and I'm starting to think it might not be me. I feel like I play well, and my play certainly has been paying off in NL. Is it just my playing style, or does one really have to get into 5-10 games to get away from the fish(like me) and into the $$. Thanks | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Pedro, 8. Sep 2003 18:57 | ||
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| The problem with limit games is people will chase and catch more often while in no limt the hand is usually won before the flop, and directly after the flop. I'm better at no limit myself but do well in limit games. You have to adjust to the people chasing and know that if 4 to a straight hit in low limit games someone most likely has it after all people that play low limit games aren't professional players. There probably just trying it out so you will encounter bad players. I personally stay out of low limit games the lowest I play is 5-10. You can move someone with a 10 dollar bet usually. Chasing can be costly. I find there are atleast reasonable players at this level. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Grateful Rooster, 9. Oct 2003 10:56 | ||
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| I'm sorry, but this doesn't make much sense to me. Why would anyone expect to be more successful against better opponents? LL is different, yes, so you can't play with the expectation that players will make accurate, calculated decisions. But in the long run, you'll get paid off at a higher rate when you make a hand (see the other posts). You'll only take a lot of bad beats if you expect rational decision making at these tables. The players do come with patterns to take advantage of, though. GR | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, DoublDown, 9. Oct 2003 13:00 | ||
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| I definitely agree with you on that one. I do have a funny story about LL games though. I was playing at the Borgata (AC) a little while ago, and i was waiting for the 10-20 table. It was full, so i decided to take the only open seat, at a 3-6 table. First hand, I put up the sitting fee and get dealt A J off. 4 people stay in the hand including me, flop comes down K-Qs-10 Rainbow. Im thinking to myself, the start of a great day ( even though it was at the 3-6 table I could still make a little money while waiting ) anyway.. EP bets, I raise, MP calls, BB calls, EP calls. Turn - 6s. EP checks, I raise, all call. Now im thinking to myself I def. have this won and everyone is still staying in, very weird. Someone maybe has the Cowboys in the hole, someone has inside str possibly. River throws out a 3s. Now im saying to myself there is no way someone stayed in while im raising the whole time to hit this flush. Well the MP a$$clown hit the flush and showed his 2s 7s. I just laugh yet frustrated. But hey..its my fault .. No one knows what may happen in LL games. Everyone at the table was cursing him for me, while i just sat there with a smile on my face. DD | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Michael C, 9. Oct 2003 15:20 | ||
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| This happens to me a lot - flop a nut st8 and they stay and get their flush with Q3s or 24s, but, what the heck. More times than not they miss them and pay me off. I am far beyond getting upset at bad beats in 3-6. Just smile, shake my head a little, say nice hand and move on. Thanks for sharing. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Angel, 8. Sep 2003 19:30 | ||
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| Yes, money can be made at the LL. If you think of poker as a game of skill, then it necessarily follows that the greater the discrepency between your skill level and your opponents - the more money you will make in the long term. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Flatout_Mainiac, 9. Sep 2003 05:03 | ||
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| At B&M's I play 2-4 and online I'm usually found at 1-2s so I'm not sure if that to too low limits. But to answer your question it is a definitive yes!!! I think table choice is the critical in LLHE. You want alot of passive players. At Party, the best way to tell if a game is passive is that it has a low average pot. At my level 90% of the time low average pots will be filled with weak player and maybe a couple of solid players which is fine. Stay away from the games with large average pots. Those are gambling fests and negate any skill advantage you have. Other than that don't chase hands. You'll make alot of money folding mediocre hands. Disciplined post flop play will give you a hugh advantage over other players. Flops like middle pair overcard kicker are essentially junk even with a backdoor draw. Don't play real fancy and pretty much stick to jamming the pot when you know have the best hand on the flop you'll do alright. in my opinion, At low limits you don't need to win those marginal hands because when you have the nuts or near nuts you will ususally be paid off above the expected value of the hand with all the weaks calling you down. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Blue Sky, 9. Sep 2003 12:33 | ||
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| JonnyC, You can definetly make money at LL poker. You're not going to be paying the mortgage or anything, but there is plenty of money to be had. I have been playing this silly game for a few years now. I average about 32 hours a week in a B&M with a win rate of $15 over the last 11 months. I'm trapped in Colorado's $2 to $5 spread limit hell where there are no other limits available, everyone must play the same game, so we find the Rocks and the fish at everytable. When I travel to play which is around once every month or so, I like to dabble in $10/20 but I have a much better win rate in $4/8 games. No matter what level you play, your going to take bad beats. Everyone seems to think that higher limits brings better players, not true. Generally, you're not going to find first timers in big limit games but you will find many people with more money then brains at every limit. There are a few things to keep in mind when switching between NL and LL games. 1. You cannot bluff in LL games. 2. You're going to get sucked out on in LL's....depending on how you handle these situations is going to dictate if you can beat these games. 3. No matter what trash hands are winning in LL games you must not change your play from a strict tight aggressive style. 4. Most LL players don't notice that your a rock, no matter how many times you raise with the best hand their going to call. They play to crack A's, K's, etc. 5. Most LL players don't have a clue about odds...They call 2 and 3 bets cold for a backdoor gutshot draw. Make them pay you off big everytime they miss. 6. You must change your style based on the table your at. In general you're going to find most LL games are Loose passive but you will find weak tight games and many others also. 7. Play at the same B&M or online site everytime. Get to know the other regulars and their style of play. Do they only bet with the nuts? Do they like to make moves based on position? The more variables you can take out of the equation the easier the game is going to be. Also, find the regulars that are "walking ATM's" play with them. 8. Keep in mind that big pairs are nice in LL games but at most Loose passive games their nothing more then a drawing hand. Well, I see that this is nothing more then a way too long rambling run-on post but I hope it helps. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Michael C, 9. Sep 2003 15:26 | ||
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| Thanks Johnny C. Good sound advice. I will work on it. I have noticed that when I had the nut flush they raised me! That was a great hand. I could not believe that a Q high raised my raise (the K was on the board, I had the A - duh). I guess I just need more nut hands. :-) And fold the hands that are not that good. Chasing has been a problem for me. on 9. Sep 2003 12:33 Blue Sky wrote: > JonnyC, > > You can definetly make money at LL poker. You're not going to be paying the > mortgage or anything, but there is plenty of money to be had. > > I have been playing this silly game for a few years now. I average about 32 hours > a week in a B&M with a win rate of $15 over the last 11 months. I'm trapped in > Colorado's $2 to $5 spread limit hell where there are no other limits available, > everyone must play the same game, so we find the Rocks and the fish at everytable. > When I travel to play which is around once every month or so, I like to dabble in > $10/20 but I have a much better win rate in $4/8 games. > > No matter what level you play, your going to take bad beats. Everyone seems to > think that higher limits brings better players, not true. Generally, you're not > going to find first timers in big limit games but you will find many people with more > money then brains at every limit. > > There are a few things to keep in mind when switching between NL and LL games. > 1. You cannot bluff in LL games. > 2. You're going to get sucked out on in LL's....depending on how you handle these > situations is going to dictate if you can beat these games. > 3. No matter what trash hands are winning in LL games you must not change your play > from a strict tight aggressive style. > 4. Most LL players don't notice that your a rock, no matter how many times you > raise with the best hand their going to call. They play to crack A's, K's, etc. > 5. Most LL players don't have a clue about odds...They call 2 and 3 bets cold for a > backdoor gutshot draw. Make them pay you off big everytime they miss. > 6. You must change your style based on the table your at. In general you're going > to find most LL games are Loose passive but you will find weak tight games and many > others also. > 7. Play at the same B&M or online site everytime. Get to know the other regulars > and their style of play. Do they only bet with the nuts? Do they like to make moves > based on position? The more variables you can take out of the equation the easier > the game is going to be. Also, find the regulars that are "walking ATM's" play with > them. > 8. Keep in mind that big pairs are nice in LL games but at most Loose passive games > their nothing more then a drawing hand. > > Well, I see that this is nothing more then a way too long rambling run-on post but I > hope it helps. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Michael C, 9. Sep 2003 15:15 | ||
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| Hi - I have been unable to consistently beat the 2-4 and 3-6 - the swings are -100, +200, -300, -150. It has to be my bad playing but I am not convinced that anyone really makes money in these games long term. I would like to know if I am on the right track or not. Is my approach correct? I read (Lee Jones) and practice online at pokerschool.com and do pretty well. But, live I get beat by hands like J2o and 69o when I play AA and Aks and KK. Then if I play trash I hit a few but lose more. On a given night I watch the chips rotate around the table to 2 or 3 players and after a short while their stacks are gone. I watched one player go from 1 rack to 5 racks back to 0 racks in about 3 hours. I should quit when my 1 rack goes to 3 racks but I don't. | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, INSINK, 16. Sep 2003 19:47 | ||
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| For those reasons I won't play anything below 15-30..... the games are too loose, and "poker" isn't played! People at the LL games are there to catch cards. If you have the skills, and the bank ...50 X BB ( some think it's 25X ) move up ! | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Michael C, 16. Sep 2003 20:43 | ||
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| thanks - I have the bank - working on the skills | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, noiseboy, 18. Sep 2003 09:10 | ||
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| I think if you play Mostly NL, your problem may be that you try to "muscle" people off of hands. In Limit, you can't really make some of the same power moves you do in NL. I go back and forth between NL, PL, and Limit, and find that I have to have a different mind set for each. In limit, I have to curtail my bluffing and figure on showing down good hands most of the time, in pot limit I need to focus on pot building and odds, in NL I need to focus on being one aggressive bad ass mofo. Sometimes it's hard to adjust back to Limit after playing NL because I can't just blow people off pots anymore. I feel like a Lion whos had it's teeth and claws removed trying to paw and gum my opponents to death. :) | ||
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| Re: Making $$ at LL, Michael C, 18. Sep 2003 17:14 | ||
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| Thanks - I think that is part of my 'problem' or 'leak' -- switching back and forth does mean that I have to switch gears mentally. On Saturday morning I play in a NL trounement with 40 people and usally come in around 13. The pay back starts at 10. Then go play some 3-6. I need to work on it some. | ||
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