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Server Time: 11/20/2008 5:24:43 AM PACIFIC |
 Simple mistake with TT, flintsword, 7. Sep 2003 18:28 | ||
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| Today I was in good tournament position in a pokerstars tournament. I had slightly more chips than the average stack and holding my own. The field had been whittled down from about 1200 players to 200 and the top hundred are paid off. I played a good hand so badly, ... I am boggled. I have TT one off the button at a table that was characterized by regular all-ins. One of these all in players raises so I call, and the flop is a rainbow 5 7 T so I have a set. We are the only players. He bets and I call. THEN THE QUAD TEN hits the turn! He checks, and like an idiot, I bet out. With the absolute nuts, I should call any bet he makes and check his check, since it is to my advantage to let him make a hand on the River and THEN put his lights out, but noooooooo, ... I bet, he folded, I smoldered, and I lost an opportunity. This player has regularly represented hands during the past few hours, so I would say there was a better than 3/4 chance that he would bet after the river and bet big to try and force me out. Oh well, live and learn. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, 4 POKER, 7. Sep 2003 18:37 | ||
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| Hey Flintsword, Yeah, sometimes the hand is quicker than the mind........damn mouse! I hate when that happens:(......sorry. Hey.....what was the outcome in the tourney? 4P- | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, flintsword, 7. Sep 2003 18:55 | ||
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| Still on and I was dumped out of the money when I went all-in with 55 and a player with KQo made a str8 to boot me for a field goal. So I finished 155th out of 1208 players. C'est la vie! I was pleased that I put the TT incident completely behind me and played tight for a good dozen hands after that, until my stack size required action, and 55 looked like it was as good as it was going to get. I was official bubble boy (21st ... grrrr) in a WSOP WarmUp Round 2 tournament on Bugsysclub today. I think there was a good 120 players in that one. All and all, my play still needs work but the results I cannot call bad. I took a break (buy-in $40) in a $0.50/$1 NL table at Paradise, and a player named "Karpro" says "flintsword from upf?" After I said yes, he informed me that if he loses it is my fault, or words to that effect ... lol. Very friendly guy and a "very friendly table" to the tune of $170 in the hour I was waiting for the pokerstars tournament to start. I did not get much of the $$ from Karpro and when I left I think he was up. Betting those tens hurt. Sort of like missing a chess combination that wins a piece. Note to self: play better next tournament ... lol. Thanks for the inquiry 4 POKER, let me know how you do once you get a table at the new casino. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, Pedro, 7. Sep 2003 22:43 | ||
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| A good player would of known you were strong if you had checked. If he was a bad player the check is the right move. Lets look at it flop comes out blanks to him he just bet probably a considerable amount to fold you. You called. The next card is a 10 he checks, if you check I would take it as you atleast have a high pocket pair after all you called probably a big raise from the blind, the obvious move there was to bet he just checked and showed weakness any good player would bet. The fact that you didn't raise will take you off AA KK and QQ. AK and AQ would have just called and I would assume that JJ would have just called before the flop. JJ would have raised after the flop and AK and AQ would have folded to a bet being scared of a pocket pair. 10 10 is really not realistic and no one can put you on that but I defineatly put you on ace 10 after you call the first bet. The best thing you could of done is raise after flop small . Then when he checks to you you check back here is why he now thinks you were on a high pocket pair and now he believes he can bluff it representing the 10. Boom he makes the bet and you get paid off. The reason you raise after he bet on the flop is cause a player with a good hand simply wont raise right he wants you in the hand. A good player probably would have played back especially if he has a high pocket pair. You must remember if he has nothing there is nothing you can do hes not going to call regardless. | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, flintsword, 8. Sep 2003 00:31 | ||
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| You are right that a good player will detect the trips. My key point here is my opponent was one of these "all-in with anything" players that I felt was an indication he was not a very good player. The reason I am really aghast at my betting (instead of checking) the turn is that it precludes the opportunity that the river gives him a really, really good second best hand. If he is holding a pocket pair, it makes sense to me to give him the opportunity to hit it. The chances of his pocket pair hitting one of the two outs is 1 in 23.5, so definitely a long shot, ... but it costs me nothing to give him the opportunity. If he does hit it, ... I am pretty sure to win all his chips given the player's propensity to go all in. Also, there was an interesting proposition made by Mike Caro that although common wisdom is to pump the pot up with raises at the flop and turn, in fact it may be a good idea to simply call. I find the idea intriguing and the idea of lulling the player into a false sense of security is appealing. I haven't decided on it's merits yet and have been trying it out with surprisingly good results in tournaments, but your point is taken that a raise on my part on the flop is in order. Thanks for the critical comment! flintsword | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, Pedro, 8. Sep 2003 06:25 | ||
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| I do believe your right that there may be two ways to play that hand correctly especially since your opponet was weak. The chances that he had a pocket pair was slim. The fact of the matter is a poket pair is dealt about 5% of the time and to have a higher pocket pair then 10's is about 1.6%. That means there was a 98 percent chance he just had overcards. I doubt a high pokcet pair would of folded especially the type of player you made him out to be. I don't think you would of made anymore money on those cards even if he catches a pair. | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, flintsword, 8. Sep 2003 06:40 | ||
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| After sleeping on it and reading your post, I have come to my senses. I realize that the scenario of trapping my opponent by checking my quads to catch an him on the river is mathematically unlikely. Further, the bet on the turn I played was not that big, so chances are good he had nothing, and the result would have been the same. So what I considered "a big deal" at the time is not, and the "real" issue I am going to think about is how the appearance of quads distorted my objectivity, possibly tilting me, though my play immediately after the quads was disciplined. That said, half my mind was on the "missed chance" instead of being on the game. Pedro, thank you for your input. When someone sees a white elephant, it is great to have someone there that can say, "It's been painted!" Good luck/skill in your games! flintsword | ||
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| Re: Simple mistake with TT, noiseboy, 8. Sep 2003 09:05 | ||
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| It's not really that clear cut, although inducing a bluff may have worked, betting out strong will work sometimes too when someone thinks you are trying to bluff them. Also, players who do a fair amount of bluffing are also suspicious of bluffs coming from you. | ||
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