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Server Time: 11/20/2008 2:18:24 AM PACIFIC |
 Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, Bentzen, 5. Sep 2003 16:48 | ||
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| Played in a fairly loose game fixed limit where the bullets (A/A) came knocking at my door. I raise and the 2 previously callers are the only one in for the flop. Flop comes; Q, J, J none suited. Both of them check and I bet, which I now believe was a bad move, as both of them folded. The reason why I think it was a bad move is that the next card could hardly harm me in anyway, and might help one of them to catch 2 pairs. If one of them had the third jack, he would surely reraise me on the river placing me in a difficult situation. If I had checked he would probably feel obliged to bet into me on the turn, thereby would I also avoid a reraise. Please feel free to comment. S.Bentzen | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, Bart Mann, 5. Sep 2003 17:40 | ||
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| I think you played it right for a couple of reasons: 1) You needed to know right then and there if one of these guys was trying to trap you by slow-playing a set or possibly a full house. At a full table it's not unlikely that someone is sitting there with QJ in the hole. A check-raise or a call after you bet tells you a lot. Most players see QJJ on the board as "scary" and wouldn't want any part of the hand if they didn't catch a piece of it. I do pretty well for myself raising when a flop like that comes out and representing the big hand, even when I know I'm extremely weak. Most people will run if you raise it up--unless of course they're the ones holding the QJ. 2) Two aces, with QJJ on the board, is not a strong hand. By slow-playing it you're giving people with straight draws (AK, A10, K9, K10) a chance to catch a free card and put a wicked beat on you. My two cents. Certainly not set in stone, but hey--you asked. | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, flintsword, 7. Sep 2003 07:13 | ||
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| You are absolutely right Bart Mann, he has to raise it to get the information he needs about this scary flop as well as make the drawing hands pay through the nose, or fold since the odds should not be there to draw on. If he gets a call, it means that someone with chips to burn is investing to draw him out OR it means that there is a J with a small kicker OR just a straight call from JQ to maximize his take having flopped a top hand. The tertiary advantage of a stiff raise is that if his opponent is holding J2 (for example), you "may" push him off the hand, despite his having three jacks, since your bet screams "I have a Jack" and the kicker rules, unless the turn and river cooperate with high cards, ... which may pair the bettors kicker. He may not think like that, but it is a major consideration when the flop is QJJ and there is a (say) large bet staring at you from the felt. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, Angel, 5. Sep 2003 18:05 | ||
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| AA tends to win small pots or lose big ones. You played the hand correctly. | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, PairTheBoard, 5. Sep 2003 21:43 | ||
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| imo, it is rarely a mistake to bet out with the best hand. Many players will call the small flop bet and fold the big turn bet routinely. In this case, as has already been pointed out, it's not even a question of making a slow play. You are betting under the principle that agressive play indicates a bet many times when you only think you may have the best hand. Giving a free card to a gut shot draw is a huge mistake. Betting into 3 jacks is only a small one. Having raised preflop you are expected to bet. If you check and bet the turn you are even less likely to get callers. They will be more afraid of your flop-check than your flop bet. They always want to put you on AK and may call you all the way with as little as 22. You never know until you put out the bet. If they come back with convincing legitimate pressure you can think about the good lay down. Cross that bridge when you come to it. jmo | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, 4 POKER, 5. Sep 2003 22:53 | ||
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| Raise pre-flop, (like you did)......and with just two other opponents in the hand; I would bet the flop when they checked it to me; if they fold, they fold....so what. You didn't flop a monster here by any means, and your hand needs to be protected by putting in a bet. If they have some sort of a straight draw with that flop, than make them pay for their draw. You're also betting to gain information that may also be needed for the later rounds. To me; a slowplay is made when you flop a monster.......not the flop in which you received for your holding. If you think you played your hand correctly, then don't have any worries about not dragging in a pot that you hoped would have been bigger. What if they called your bet on the flop?......would that have made you happier?.......keep in mind, whenever someone calls one of your bets, they would also be entitled to win the hand, unless they're drawing stone cold dead. Take the pot and move on. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, Formless, 6. Sep 2003 03:29 | ||
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| I'd bet this flop in a loose game. You will get called by J for sure and often A high, gut draw, openended draw, etc., and that's how you make money at poker. If the flop came 336 or 558 rainbow you would be more inclined to check the flop and let them catch something on the turn and bet into your supposed AK no pair. You have a strong hand and don't fear overcards. But that all depends on table image and texture. I don't think this is the right flop to slowplay AA. | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, Bentzen, 6. Sep 2003 07:42 | ||
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| Thank you very much for all the replies.. Betting into this on the flop is what I normally would do, but the hand just made me think about the opportunities.!! Anyway back to fishing... S.Bentzen | ||
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| Re: Playing the bullets..(slowplaying)??, flintsword, 7. Sep 2003 07:19 | ||
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| My comment to your question is going to be a little offbeat, so forgive me for not dealing "square" with your question. AA in a fixed limit game (vs a No Limit game) is a hand you want to maximize. You can maximize it in numerous ways. Raising it is the obvious choice. Occasionally slowplay it and then bet it on the river. Show it if you win and also if you are beat. Nothing like having your opponents keep, as part of their notes on you, "able to slowplay AA". Makes you a tougher target. This is just part of the idea of mixing up your play, becoming unpredictable, and being identified as a dangerous & cunning opponent, ... which will come in real useful in the big pots. Hope this helps & good luck in your games! flintsword | ||
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