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Server Time: 11/20/2008 9:39:43 AM PACIFIC |
 Poker Psychology with $$$, trwebb26, 5. Sep 2003 06:08 | ||
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| I have a problem. I do well in tournaments, but have a lot of problems in ring games. I think the reason (part of the reason anyways) is that in a ring game - I know that each chip is worth a given amount of money. It is difficult for me to get past that - I'm betting $10 on this hand. In tournaments I don't have that problem because I'm just betting chips. Chips in a tournament are just chips - my chips versus his chips. I bet $10 on a hand of poker and in the back of my mind i'm thinking - I could eat lunch with this bet. It is this hesitation which I believe makes me a poor ring game player. Does anybody else have this problem? Is there any way to stop it? | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, Roy Cooke, 5. Sep 2003 06:15 | ||
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| Hi I think your focus is in the wrong place...Focus on your decisions at the table NOT the money....I keep a separate poker bankroll and don't cash out my chips but once a month and find that steers my mind away from the financial aspect of the game.....If you step up and think you are wagering your car every month, you will have a hard time focusing on making the right play! Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 5. Sep 2003 06:08 trwebb26 wrote: > I have a problem. I do well in tournaments, but have a lot of problems in ring > games. I think the reason (part of the reason anyways) is that in a ring game - > I know that each chip is worth a given amount of money. It is difficult for me > to get past that - I'm betting $10 on this hand. In tournaments I don't have > that problem because I'm just betting chips. Chips in a tournament are just > chips - my chips versus his chips. I bet $10 on a hand of poker and in the back > of my mind i'm thinking - I could eat lunch with this bet. It is this > hesitation which I believe makes me a poor ring game player. Does anybody else > have this problem? Is there any way to stop it? | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, Snorbolus, 5. Sep 2003 10:14 | ||
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| It helps a lot if you only play for stakes that you can both afford to and are willing to loose. I always take the exact amount of cash to the casino that I am prepared to loose. If loosing $400 on a paticular night would make me unhappy then I don't take that much with me. If I do have a loosing session I think of it as the cost of entertainment for that evening. I had already decided that I was willing to accept spending that much so it takes the sting out some. Obviously I prefer to win though. Snorbolus on 5. Sep 2003 06:08 trwebb26 wrote: > I have a problem. I do well in tournaments, but have a lot of problems in ring > games. I think the reason (part of the reason anyways) is that in a ring game - > I know that each chip is worth a given amount of money. It is difficult for me > to get past that - I'm betting $10 on this hand. In tournaments I don't have > that problem because I'm just betting chips. Chips in a tournament are just > chips - my chips versus his chips. I bet $10 on a hand of poker and in the back > of my mind i'm thinking - I could eat lunch with this bet. It is this > hesitation which I believe makes me a poor ring game player. Does anybody else > have this problem? Is there any way to stop it? | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, Bart Mann, 5. Sep 2003 11:06 | ||
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| I've always loved gambling of pretty much any kind, so admittedly I don't have this problem. But I think the reason why is because I just think of it as "Prepaid Entertainment." When I sit down at the low-limit table and buy $200 worth of chips, that money is spent right then and there--it's no longer mine. If I want to walk away from the table with any money, I have to play well and earn the right to do so. I think it also helped that I got a degree in Finance, and learned all about the principals of "Sunk vs. Incremental" costs . . . | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, 4 POKER, 5. Sep 2003 11:35 | ||
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| Hi, When you make those $10 bets, call, raises, etc. in the ring games...look at it as the chips being "units" as opposed to real money. When you make a bet in a ring game, you're making the bet because you're making a good and sound minded reason for doing so,ie; implied odds, pot odds, protecting a strong hand, bluffing, etc. etc.. The chips that you "leave with" are the chips that actually have value ($) to them. Sure, with each time that you *do* put your chips into a pot, it IS your money, however, the "things" that you can buy with that money (lunch, clothes, car payments.....whatever), should not even be thought about IMO, because as long as you are playing in a game that is "good for you", and you're playing solid poker, and you feel confident in all of your decisions....you'll stand an even better chance to increase the amount of "units" that are in front of you. Focus on your *decisions* during the game, not the actual money. You can look at those chips as little soldiers; and only use them when you think you're going to get even more soldiers back in return. If you lose your soldiers than your army (bankroll) is now weakened. That may sound silly but the chips that are in front of you are ones that you need to protect, and sometimes that will mean betting, raising, re-raising, checking, or folding. I'm just trying to say that if you can look at your chips as a "way", "method" to earn *more* chips, and that also means *saving* your chips (bets) when you don't feel that it is correct for you to be a part of that pot anymore, plain and simple. Understand *why* you are putting your chips into the pot, and focus on that, at that moment, and also be aware of how the hand may be played out on the later rounds as well so you may be able to make even better decisions with your own reactions during the hand, by being one step ahead. If you always looked at each chip as $10, $20, $50, etc., than maybe, the limit is too high for you, and that type of thinking that you mentioned (looking at that chip as being lunch money, for example), might lead you to make incorrect calls and even incorrect folds. When I put my chips into a pot, there's a reason for it, and whatever may happen *afterwards* is not important. You make the best decisions that you can make during every hand and current situation, and "let the chips fall where they may"! If I lose $1000 at a session of poker, I'm not going to say, "Hey, that money could have paid off some of my bills". If I think I played well, that's all that matters to me.......win OR lose. That's how I approach it anyway. 4P- | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, timmer, 7. Sep 2003 07:13 | ||
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| Chips are like bullets to a hunter. A hunter takes his money and buys some shells. he takes those shells out to the field and fires them at worthy prey. If the worthy prey doesnt succumb to the hunters bullets the hunter goes hungy. if the hunter goes hungry for too long he dies. If the bullets make their mark and the prey succumbs to the hunters bullets he and his family eat. after the hunt is over he can return the bulletts not expended to the armory and get the appropriate amount of money back in exchange. PS good hunters always eat deer, bad hunters.... eat crow. on 5. Sep 2003 06:08 trwebb26 wrote: > I have a problem. I do well in tournaments, but have a lot of problems in ring > games. I think the reason (part of the reason anyways) is that in a ring game - > I know that each chip is worth a given amount of money. It is difficult for me > to get past that - I'm betting $10 on this hand. In tournaments I don't have > that problem because I'm just betting chips. Chips in a tournament are just > chips - my chips versus his chips. I bet $10 on a hand of poker and in the back > of my mind i'm thinking - I could eat lunch with this bet. It is this > hesitation which I believe makes me a poor ring game player. Does anybody else > have this problem? Is there any way to stop it? | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, flintsword, 7. Sep 2003 07:44 | ||
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| Perhaps you should take another tack with this problem. Next time you enter a multi table tournament, "pretend" that the 5,000 chips they give you is actually $5,000. Get used to the idea of making those big money bets as real money and you should become more comfortable with bigger amounts at a ring game. 4 POKER is right that you should play units instead of dollars, but man is an intelligent animal (some of the time ...) and hard to fool (some of the time ...). If you are the real cerebral type, there is another method that works well. Consider the money you bring to the table as an "entertainment expense". If you bring $200 to the table and you will get 10 hours of pleasure playing it, and you walk away with only half, that's $10 an hour. In today's world, there are a lot of sports that would cost you a lot more, so RELAX. Poker is also a game of the "long run", ... and for sure you will - at some point - hit a period where you will suffer loses ... the trick is minimizing the losses during that period. Play long enough and you will beat the system and the entertainment will cost you pennies an hour. Play well enough (now that you are no longer tense about losing $$) and guess what? You are being paid to entertain yourself, and you are a winning player. It is very important to eliminate this source of tension. If one of your opponents gets wind of the fact that you have this particular weakness, ... he will reraise you "every pot" since using game theory he can count on a high percentage of cases where you will fold and this will allow him to draw to inside str8s and other garbage, since (for example) he can count on the fact that 50% of the time you will fold to a big bet or raise. I am guessing here and hope this comment helps. One last point. Financial security is the best way to de-fang this fear for good. Some easy methods of enhancing your financial security are: balance your checkbook, play with money you can afford to lose, & keep a jar full of silver dollars in your kitchen. I am being flip here but the idea is to do things that make you a more secure financial picture, and there are many inexpensive ways to do that. Hope this slightly different answer proves helpful. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Poker Psychology with $$$, chasepoker, 7. Sep 2003 08:06 | ||
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| Also as well as seeing the chips as beer tokens ( which can psychologically effect your performance) i bet you are not adjusting to the differences between tournament play and ring game play. Try to tighten up a bit in your ring game as are not able to pick up pot after pot with no hands ( unlike tournaments ) and you will often have to show down hands to win pots. I find it tricky to switch my game sometimes from ring games to tournaments that could be the problem you are having as well. Just some thoughts Chasepoker | ||
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