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Server Time: 12/1/2008 5:47:07 PM PACIFIC |
 What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, Bart Mann, 2. Sep 2003 14:32 | ||
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| Hey . . . question from a new guy. Not new to poker, but new to this Forum. It looks like a promising place to exchange ideas--hope I'm right. Anyway, I play low limit Hold'em pretty much exclusively--mostly at the local card room. Ever since I started playing I swore to myself that if I sat down at a poker table, I wouldn't be pushed around. I've sat beside too many guys who are four cards to the nut flush on the flop, and get run out of a huge pot because they're scared to draw after a raise is made. Unfortunately, I think I overcompensate by being too aggressive--never giving other players credit for having the big hand. If someone is representing a huge hand and I'm holding second or third nuts, I almost always make him show the monster to me. Although I win a lot more uncontested pots than most people (by catching a lot of bluffers), I also lose some pretty big ones. After giving it some thought, I've come to the conclusion that in general, people just bluff a lot less in Limit Hold'em, and I seem to be playing a style that might be more suited to No-Limit Holdem. Or, maybe my style of poker overall is just plain wrong. I'd appreciate any input or insight any of you may have. I'm thick skinned, so let 'er rip! | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, kennycatkiller, 2. Sep 2003 17:58 | ||
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| In limit poker, when the pot is large, you simply can not fold second or third best straight or flush on the river. You can lose only one big bet by calling, but the entire pot if you are wrong. Say, for example, the pot contains $100 and it costs $10 to call on the river. If you call and lose, you lose only $10, while if you fold what would have been a winner, you have lost $100. Now, in no-limit, or in a tournament, things might be different. | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, Bart Mann, 2. Sep 2003 18:38 | ||
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| Makes sense. I've been reading some of the other strings about low-limit, and I think part of my problem is that I need to play more conservatively. With so many people staying in until the river, the odds of a monster hand being out there are quite a bit higher. Unfortunately, I get bored playing "solid" poker all the time. I like to put plays on people, and catch people trying to put plays on me. Maybe I have to step up to a higher limit--but then again, that $2/$4 table is a great place to learn. | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, gary ford, 2. Sep 2003 20:17 | ||
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| on 2. Sep 2003 18:38 Bart Mann wrote: > Makes sense. I've been reading some of the other strings about low-limit, and I think > part of my problem is that I need to play more conservatively. With so many people > staying in until the river, the odds of a monster hand being out there are quite a bit > higher. Unfortunately, I get bored playing "solid" poker all the time. I like to put > plays on people, and catch people trying to put plays on me. Maybe I have to step up to a > higher limit--but then again, that $2/$4 table is a great place to learn. be careful. It looks like youre playing with your emotions and ego. By now if you played with the same people, thay've got a line on your play. It's all about money, not ego as has been said here before. I would guess you are single and in your 20's i Am I right? | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, Bart Mann, 3. Sep 2003 06:31 | ||
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| Gary, you're killing me. 33 years old, married for 6. One child--2 1/2. Undergraduate degree in Finance, MBA in Marketing. We come in all shapes and sizes, I guess. I don't mind getting beat by a better hand. Heck, I don't even mind if someone catches perfect on the River in a hand they had no business playing in the first place. I just have a problem with giving other players respect at the table unless they put a good beat on me a few times. Some people assume everyone at the table is a solid player until proven otherwise. I sit down with the attitude (at the low limit $2/$4 table) that everyone at the table is going to make fatal mistakes in their play. But I think I'm finding that for the most part, low limit players play tight and "by the rules." Few of them make plays, even less of them bluff and none of them ever try to trap anybody. They raise with solid hands and fold weak ones 98% of the time. I think I just need to give the low-limit players more credit for doing the same homework I do. Maybe it is an ego thing. | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, shorn, 3. Sep 2003 07:34 | ||
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| A good rule of thumb that I use when playing is to not fold a potential second best hand when it still takes two cards to beat me (unless of course the board is so uncoordinated AND I have more than two opponents that a flush is the only thing they could have been drawing for). When the pot is big, it costs way too much in LT expectation to fold a potential winner even 1 time in 10. So, I rarely fold the river if it will take two cards to beat me. If it takes one card (say 4 flush cards on the board), all I have is top/top, and there is a bettor and at least 1 caller, then it is likely I can save the bet for another hand. I guess the bottom line is that it is all situational and depends on the players and the texture of the table. One thing I won't agree with you on (at least in the games in which I participate) is that you can "put a lot of plays" on LL players. Most players are only playing their own cards at limits 5/10 and below, so generally you must show down a decent hand to win a pot. | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, Bart Mann, 3. Sep 2003 07:53 | ||
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| I like your line of thinking. I do, however, need to clarify something. I didn't say you "could" put a lot of plays on low-limit players--I said I "like to." You're assuming I get away with it and that it works--which of course I usually do not . . . and it rarely does. Herein lies the flaw in my low-limit strategy, I think. Thanks for your reply. You sound like you know what you're talking about. | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, shorn, 3. Sep 2003 08:08 | ||
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| Oh, OK. I misunderstood. I will agree that this could be a potential flaw (not to mention an hourly rate killer) in your current game. But, the first step is recognition, so you are at least halfway there. Thanks for the ego stroke. Based on my recent results (which I know mean little as we should all focus on "the long run" blah, blah, blah) I have much to learn as well. That is the beauty of the game...no one ever has a corner on poker market knowledge and if there comes a day when you think you do...LOOK OUT. | ||
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| Re: What's Better--Giving Players Too Much Credit, or Not Enough?, stdioh, 3. Sep 2003 15:43 | ||
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| When I give a player too much credit it can cost me 1 pot. When I don't give a player enough credit, it costs me 1 big bet over and over and over again. Both are bad, so I try to measure it just right :) | ||
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