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Server Time: 12/1/2008 5:32:48 PM PACIFIC |
 table selection ? for the pros, tpir90036, 1. Sep 2003 21:48 | ||
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| still working off the jet lag from a fantastic trip to vegas. it was my first time playing poker outside of AC and i ended up +$300 for 3 nights playing a mixture of 2/4, 4/8 and the 2-6 spread game at the excalibur. many thanks to everyone on here for the great advice, etc. there is no question that the biggest edge in my game came from table selection. i bounced around until i found the juiciest table i have ever seen and played it until the sun game up, literally. which leads me to...... my question for the pros: how hard is it to find juicy games at the higher limits? i do not have aspirations of jumping to $30-60 any time soon....but i am very curious as to where pros get their edge in those games. are there still fish in these games? or is it just a matter of being that much better than even the solid players? if you were a pro and realized you were at a table of solid players would you find another game? or is there that much difference in skill that you could still come out ahead? or put another way: do pros make their money from weak players too? or do they just make it from all players? thanks in advance.... | ||
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| Re: table selection ? for the pros, Mark Gregorich, 2. Sep 2003 16:36 | ||
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| I agree that table selection is a huge part of winning poker. When I walk into the poker room, I try to look for the game where I feel I can make the most money. Somedays that is a $30-60 hold'em game, other days $80-160, or sometimes $75-150 omaha 8 or better. Yes, there is plenty of money to be made in these games. My brother, who is an occasional $3-6 player, sometimes watches my game and is amazed at some of the cards which get turned up (generally not mine, though). Overall, I usually feel like I have enough of an edge in virtually any hold'em or omaha game at these limits to justify sitting down in it. However, the mistakes made by the weaker players in these games aren't necessarily the same ones made by lower limit players. For example, at the higher limits, many of the weak players play in an extremely loose and aggressive manner. They may not leave with any chips, but they might take you down with them. Also, players like this will occasionally post huge wins. The presence of these types of players makes the game more volatile. This is in contrast to the large number of loose yet passive players (calling stations) which populate the lower limit games. These players have virtually no chance to win - they pay off when they're beat, and don't charge you enough when you're beat. I also run into a large number of these types of weak players in $30-60 hold'em at the Bellagio, especially on big weekends. Basically, these players are dream opponents. So, can I beat a game full of pros? Well, usually I don't try. If I'm sitting in a game like this, I'll generally either switch games or find something else to do. Of course, we're assuming that a pro is an excellent, disciplined, knowledgeable player, who has a firm handle on the game and never goes on tilt. Also, he is focused and is there to win. Who wants to sit in a game full of these guys? Fortunately, I have found that few people really fit the bill here. I find there to be a large talent and performance gap between the top players and the regulars and pro "wannabes". Frequently this gap can only be seen when the player is stuck in a game (this brings out a poker player's true colors.) I will sometimes sit in a game in which I don't feel I have much edge at the moment, because I know if the right guys get stuck the game will be on! I make most of my money from the worst players. Although I feel confident in my ability to play poker with other pros, very little if any of my overall win in the game comes from other excellent players. I do, however, feel that I have a substantial edge over many other Vegas regulars (not the top players, but the decent ones who are there every day, including many who play for a living). This emerges in a number of forms: not going on tilt, not missing bets or bluffing opportunities, not paying off when I'm obviously beat, not overplaying certain marginal hands out of position, etc. etc. Over time, the gap in the results of two similar players can be quite significant if they vary in just one of these ways. Mark | ||
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| Re: table selection ? for the pros, tpir90036, 2. Sep 2003 23:03 | ||
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| i still have *a lot* of work to do in the categories you mentioned. at the excalibur last wednesday night i was so excited to have someone lead into me when i had the nut flush that i forgot to raise!?! talk about a missed bet. in my defense it was very late....or early.....or whatever time it gets to be in vegas ;) | ||
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| Re: table selection ? for the pros, frank snyder, 2. Sep 2003 19:09 | ||
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| I, like you, play alot of low limit games. A good example is, I was in Atlantic City at Taj Mahal a few weeks ago and sat down at this table full of substandard players. I won a few pots and was up about $50, and then the table went cold, one dumbass horrible player started catching flush after flush after flush. He then started playing every hand (to my delight !), I guess he figured he couldnt lose... well he was right... he couldnt lose. I never saw such a long streak. I pretty much got fed up and went to a different table, a table full of young men ( liek myself). I love to play at a table full of young men, cuz they are total chasers and fish. And this was true at this table as well. Well, even tho I was sure I outclassed every single person there, I couldnt make a hand to save my life. I stayed pretty tight ( even tho the temptation is to be really really loose in these games ). I was stuck for about $200, pissed off liek crazy cuz these dumbasses made boats out of 3 4 offsuit (witha preflop raise in there too), and similar hands. I figured the cream woudl eventually come to the top,and I stuck it out and kept my emotions in check. i ended the night up a few hundred bucks. Fuck those guys. So anyway, long story but... find the table full of young guys and take em down ! | ||
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| Re: table selection ? for the pros, tpir90036, 2. Sep 2003 23:11 | ||
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| i hope to get back to the taj one weekend real soon. hopefully one of the young people at my table isn't you! | ||
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