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Server Time: 11/20/2008 7:09:52 AM PACIFIC |
 Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), mroban, 1. Sep 2003 06:30 | ||
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| So here I am playing at PP in a typical fishy, loose and passive (no maniacs) low limit game yesterday and an interesting (I think) hand came up. I was beating this table handily, up 15 BB in less than an hour. The player to my right was the only player approximating a decent player - by saying that I mean he was also playing too loose but seemed to be raising and folding with some sort of strategy. But still, he was clearly playing any ace and other weak starting hands (just not quite as weak as some of the others). Anyway, in the SB I was dealt J6os. As usual, all limped in, so I did too for half a bet and the flop came J23rainbow. All checked to the player to my right on the button and he raised. I normally would fold here, and was sure he had another J. I was 100% sure he would have raised with JJ so it was a matter of being outkicked. I folded the hand because he could easily have had J2 or J3 as J7 through J10. Amazingly, 3 other players called his raise (unreal). The turn brought another J. He raised and got one caller (just really incredible). He showed down J4os. So I would have had him beat. But I still think I made the right decision. In a good game, I wouldn't even think twice, but my decision came down the fact that I eliminated JT though AJ (he would have raised any of those preflop I think). So it was equally likely for him to have J2, J3, J4, J5, J6, J7, J8 or J9. I could only beat J4, J5 and chop a J6. BUT, I was getting pretty good pot odds with all the callers (I should have known there would be callers). Had I had the luxury of having the callers in between me and the button, I probably would have called it down. But having to act right after, I considered that I didn't have the right odds and certainly the wrong implied odds. Was this the correct decision or should I have called here? | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), Angel, 1. Sep 2003 07:22 | ||
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| Without getting into it too deeply, you made the correct decision for the reasons you listed. | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), mroban, 1. Sep 2003 12:47 | ||
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| Interesting that you and SendMoney have two very different views of this. Is Barry T around for the tiebreaker? | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), SendMoney, 1. Sep 2003 10:16 | ||
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| The correct decision based on the way you play is to fold J6o before the flop, even out of the small blind. If the only way you figure to continue in the hand is if you flop two pair, trips, or a boat, then you're not even getting half a small bet worth in my opinion. In the same situation I would have bet the flop, and folded if there were a raise behind me. If there was no flop raise I would bet the turn when the 2nd jack hit, and then check/call the river. | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), mroban, 1. Sep 2003 12:46 | ||
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| Really interesting, thanks Send. Good thought. Typically, I have found it profitable to play the SB in these games if not raised with pretty much anything. I will check and fold unless I double-hit the flop (as you said, will need 2 pair or better). I have found that play to be very profitable so that is where you and I probably disagree. But I like the reraise here although I don't think it was incorrect to fold. MR | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), Snorbolus, 2. Sep 2003 09:16 | ||
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| I would have folded pre-flop. Like you I wouldn't have wanted to continue without the flop hitting me twice and, like SendMoney, I would not expect to get enough value from those times that it does (and that I go on to win), to pay for those times that it doesn't. I was interested to read that you find there is enough value from the flops that hit twice. How passive and calling-stationey do you think that the field needs to be for this to be profitable? Essentially no danger of a raise from the big blind and at least 3 others likely to reach the river, having called a check-raise with top pair or worse somewhere along the way would be my cirteria. Snorbolus on 1. Sep 2003 12:46 mroban wrote: > Really interesting, thanks Send. Good thought. Typically, I have found it profitable to > play the SB in these games if not raised with pretty much anything. I will check and fold > unless I double-hit the flop (as you said, will need 2 pair or better). I have found that > play to be very profitable so that is where you and I probably disagree. > > But I like the reraise here although I don't think it was incorrect to fold. > > MR | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), mroban, 5. Sep 2003 15:13 | ||
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| Snorbolus: That is exactly my criteria - a very passive game where everybody limps in and the blinds almost never raise unless they have AA (and then you know exactly where you stand on the flop). I would automatically toss that hand if there was a raise in front of me. | ||
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| Re: Fold this Hand (Fishy LLHE Game), Phish, 2. Sep 2003 09:55 | ||
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| Calling would've been the worst option. Folding like you did was fine given that there were several players to act behind you. At a bigger stakes game where they play a little tighter a raise may have been better to help clear the field, since many players may bet a hand like 88 on the button when it gets checked to them and there's only one overcard. | ||
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