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Server Time: 12/1/2008 5:57:57 PM PACIFIC |
 An 8/16 holdem hand ?, Angel, 1. Sep 2003 04:21 | ||
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| Playing 8/16 holdem, 2 MP callers - both loose passive and finally a loose aggressive player in late position calls. I'm in the BB and have 77. I check the option and we see a rainbow flop of J 7 5. I lead out, no sense trying anything fancy - both mid-position players are calling stations but I'm hoping that if the late position aggressive player raises, I can 3-bet and either charge the calling stations full price or get them to throw away so I can get some drawing hands out. Late position does raise, I 3-bet and both middle players fold - late position caps. Turn comes an offsuit 10 completing the rainbow. At this point I didn't have much to go on to put my opponent on a hand; while he did cap on the flop - it didn't mean as much coming from him as it would have from a more solid player. I suspected a Jack - maybe two pair. I was fairly certain that he had neither JJ or TT because he hadn't demonstrated any deceptive pre-flop moves (like smooth calling with such a hand). It also went through my head that he might have a 98 and capped on the flop on the stregnth of a DBB. I led out again, he raised, I 3-bet he made it four. Ok, the 98 possibility was becoming more worrisome about this time. I decided to invest two more bets - a raise and if he re-raised me for 6 bets, I'd just call. I did and he did. The river was a blank and I checked, he bet and I called. He turned over a JT for top two and I won the pot. When I saw his hand though I really began to question slowing down. Is it correct to check and call on the river in this spot? Should I have taken the turn betting to 6 bets or stopped at 4...or continued beyond 6? I'm fairly comfotable with 6-bets on the turn but the check and call on the river has got my inner railbird asking me why I threw my skirt up over my head and ran away... | ||
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| Re: An 8/16 holdem hand ?, Urban Chaos, 1. Sep 2003 04:47 | ||
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| Angel, I don't think you should question slowing down. If you put him on that str8--and he was surely betting it that way--then believing him and being wrong won you the pot anyway. Certainly, HE wasn't thinking about YOU having the str8 with all your betting and raising. I would think one of you would have slowed down earlier, so I don't criticize you for doing so on the river. But then, I'm not as experienced as some here. Let's see what others say. -Urban "If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you're smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you. " | ||
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| Re: An 8/16 holdem hand ?, Formless, 1. Sep 2003 07:03 | ||
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| With JJ and the nuts possibly out there I don't think you can bet the river. Your turn play is gutsy and probably right I think. Nice hand. | ||
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| Re: An 8/16 holdem hand ?, Radman, 1. Sep 2003 08:03 | ||
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| I like your play on all streets. I probably wouldn't have 5 bet the turn, but I still like it. | ||
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| Re: An 8/16 holdem hand ?, shorn, 2. Sep 2003 05:23 | ||
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| You must slow down without the nuts when an opponent shows that much strength against you. You won more than i would have...I would never have put in the 5th turn bet after he 4-bet. I would have read him for JJ at that point. | ||
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| Re: An 8/16 holdem hand ?, Angel, 2. Sep 2003 07:12 | ||
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| First of all, thank for your response. A questions though: Having made the determination that the opponent did not have JJ (no raise pre-flop from an opponent without that trick in his arsenal) why would one put him on such a hand on the turn? It seemed to me that if a hand was to be feared it was the 98 - a hand which he would not have raised with pre-flop but might bet strong - over valuing the double gut shot. Although I re-examined the hand from the beginning after the 4th bet on the turn - I re-dismissed JJ. on 2. Sep 2003 05:23 shorn wrote: > You must slow down without the nuts when an opponent shows that much strength against > you. You won more than i would have...I would never have put in the 5th turn bet > after he 4-bet. I would have read him for JJ at that point. | ||
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| Re: An 8/16 holdem hand ?, shorn, 2. Sep 2003 07:19 | ||
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| Good question. I don't know that many players who will six-bet a draw, except maybe in Southern California. My point is that you can't always trust your initial read and since he had shown so much strength on the flop as well, you have to re-evaluate all of the hands that can beat you and back in to the feasibility of your opponent holding that hand. I guess my thought are that based on the on the flop action, I would have ruled out 89 there forcing me to assume that the only two hands he could have were 55 or JJ. | ||
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