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Server Time: 12/1/2008 6:09:31 PM PACIFIC |
 NL Hand played badly ?, chasepoker, 31. Aug 2003 11:15 | ||
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| Hello everybody i am back after computer hassles, any thoughts on the way i played this hand ( i am seat 2 richking). The game had been pretty loose with people going all in on the flop with hands like top pair ( not even top pair & top kicker ) and a lot of people calling these all in bets with the wrong pot odds etc.. Questions: 1) Should i have slow played them on the flop ? 2) Should i have put myself all in the end ? Cheers CP PokerStars Game #105916279: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2003/08/29 - 13:02:52 (EST) Table 'Tolosa' Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: Lidocaine ($141.90 in chips) Seat 2: rich-king ($205.35 in chips) Seat 3: Teketb ($51.50 in chips) Seat 4: Solings ($263.50 in chips) Seat 5: tobyone ($38 in chips) Seat 6: TopPairs ($53.15 in chips) Seat 7: Nolimmit24 ($13.55 in chips) rich-king: posts small blind $1 Teketb: posts big blind $2 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to rich-king [2c 2s] Solings: raises $2 to $4 tobyone: folds TopPairs: folds Nolimmit24: folds Lidocaine: calls $4 rich-king: calls $3 tobyone leaves the table Teketb: calls $2 *** FLOP *** [2d Kh 6c] rich-king: checks Teketb: checks Solings: bets $4 Lidocaine: calls $4 rich-king: calls $4 Teketb: folds *** TURN *** [2d Kh 6c] [5d] rich-king: bets $12 Solings: calls $12 Lidocaine: raises $12 to $24 rich-king: raises $12 to $36 Solings: calls $24 Lidocaine: raises $12 to $48 rich-king: calls $12 Solings: calls $12 *** RIVER *** [2d Kh 6c 5d] [Ac] rich-king: checks Solings: checks Lidocaine: bets $85.90 and is all-in rich-king: calls $85.90 Solings: folds *** SHOW DOWN *** Lidocaine: shows [5c 5h] (three of a kind, Fives) rich-king: mucks hand Lidocaine collected $340.80 from pot Solings said, "eheh" Solings said, "K5" *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $343.80 | Rake $3 Board [2d Kh 6c 5d Ac] Seat 1: Lidocaine (button) showed [5c 5h] and won ($340.80) with three of a kind, Fives Seat 2: rich-king (small blind) mucked [2c 2s] - three of a kind, Deuces Seat 3: Teketb (big blind) folded on the Flop Seat 4: Solings folded on the River Seat 5: tobyone folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: TopPairs folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Nolimmit24 folded before Flop (didn't bet | ||
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| Re: NL Hand played badly ?, mkpoker, 31. Aug 2003 11:34 | ||
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| Hey chase, Like your posts...don't like your play this hand. The first question, which you didn't pose, is whether to play the hand at all. In a limit game, I'd never call a preflop raise with 22. There's clearly higher implied odds in NL, so it might be worthwhile, but I still wouldn't do it. If you don't hit a 2 on the flop, it's an automatic muck. Given your chances, I'd still fold pre-flop. But...once you flop trip 2s, **you absolutely cannot slowplay** You're biggest risk is losing to an overset. It's unlikely someone holds KK or we would have seen more aggressive pre-flop action, but other medium pairs are possible. You don't want to give opponents with a middle pair a chance to hit an overset. **You want to win the pot right here.** I would have made a much bigger bet ($50-75) to clear the field. Finally, should you call the all-in bet? A tough one. You're hoping that he's betting on aces-up, and you're really fearing an overset (which he had, alas). That's a killer. I don't know that I could bring myself to muck, but I think the mistake was letting it get to this point. | ||
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| Re: NL Hand played badly ?, BryanW, 31. Aug 2003 11:55 | ||
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| Chase, To be honest, I'm really not a big fan of ever slow playing trips or a set. While it's a powerful hand in hold'em, there are so many ways to beat it and slowplaying just encourages people to draw out on you. This hand is a classic example of that very principle. Do you really believe that guy would have stayed in with the fives if you had made a much stronger bet? The K5 would have probably stuck around for awhile, but the fives would have high tailed it with a big enough move from you. As for the end and whether you should have gone all-in, I would have had a hard time laying that down, too. There is clearly no flush and a straight seems pretty unlikely. Anyone with aces or kings in the hole would have raised pre-flop and how can you worry about a pair of fives or sixes all the time? The only think that would have given me pause was seeing that guy wake up when the 5d came down, but it would have been hard to put him on a set of fives. I think I would have made the same move, putting my opponents on two pair or a diamond flush draw that missed. I don't think you played especially terribly, but I definitely would have played more aggressive on the flop. You could have safely ruled out anyone having a set of kings. Even if someone had come in with sixes, a large enough raise may have even pushed him off those cards and you would probably have nixed that guy with the fives right there. Remember the saying: It's better to win a small pot than lose a big one. Just my two cents. Bryan | ||
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| Re: NL Hand played badly ?, Schuster, 31. Aug 2003 13:56 | ||
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| If there is a time to slowplay a set, that board is just about perfect. King high, rainbow, and almost zero straight draws. Change the 6 to a 7 or 8 and I'd slowplay this in a heartbeat. That said, if people are willing to big bets or all-ins with nothing but top pair (no kicker) I say let them. Make the bet big. Make their odds good enough to chase to 2 pair, but bad enough to try to hit their set if they have a pocket pair. I think I would have raised the flop bet to $12-$15. If the 55 still plays, then that's poker, but they made a mistake doing it. Lee | ||
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| Re: NL Hand played badly ?, philly, 31. Aug 2003 20:00 | ||
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| I agree with MK here. 22 just doesn't do it for me pre-flop. It is too dangerous a hand. Even if you do make your set, your extremely vulnerable. Granted I am pretty conservative, but I'd have to let that one go. | ||
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| Re: NL Hand played badly ?, Mark Gregorich, 2. Sep 2003 15:51 | ||
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| Although this isn't a particularly threatening board, I think putting a decent sized raise in on the flop is the correct play. The main reason for this is to prevent other players with small pocket pairs from taking off a cheap card. You should still get some action from the hands you dominate, such as Kx. However, its unlikely you'll get those small pairs to go off for any more money on the turn, unless they hit their set, so you may as well get rid of them now. For this reason, I may choose to slowplay top set in this spot (or middle set if its big enough that I'm pretty sure nobody is holding a bigger pocket pair), but 22 is too vulnerable to someone turning a larger set. I don't think you made a mistake entering the pot initially, though. Mark | ||
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