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Server Time: 8/30/2008 6:32:28 AM PACIFIC |
 Phil talks about "Attittude", flintsword, 30. Aug 2003 14:26 | ||
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| The Phil Hellmuth article on player attitude is interesting. Here is the link to the article. www.cardplayer.com/?sec=afeature&art_id=12865 Whiners losing may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, seeing as we are going to "notice" the whiner losing and "not notice" the stoic, silent types losing. (The parallel is the legend that dolphins push shipwrecked sailors to land. You only hear from the sailors pushed to land, ... and unlikely to hear from the sailors that get pushed out to sea ... for all we know, only mentally unbalanced dolphins push shipwrecked sailors to land, ... but we will only hear from the survivors.) Still a good article. Anyone else in UPF believe that a stong, positive outlook is critical for success at poker? I am a firm believer, but any input, positive or negative, would be welcome. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", BryanW, 30. Aug 2003 15:06 | ||
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| Flint, I believe that people that get down on themselves and/or start whining think they're self-fulfilling bad luck when in actuality they're a little on tilt, making more marginal moves, and trying to manufacture some wins. It's not the same as full-on tilt, but it causes you to lose enough edge that you start losing more and despite still starting with playable hands, are probably ignoring signs that they are beaten, thus saying that it was just bad luck. It's not all bad luck, you are probably also playing worse. The thing is that they can't admit to themselves that they were really a little on tilt and just blame it on luck. -Bryan | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", Urban Chaos, 31. Aug 2003 01:57 | ||
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| Bryan, I totally agree...it's not that some kind of karmic luck changes against you because your aura is clouding with dark negativity...but your mind is clouding with that negativity and subconsciously, it can affect your play just slightly enough to lead to negative results. When we're frustrated, it's easier to become MORE frustrated...and it's hard to NOT be frustrated. Same thing with patience and impatience. How you're looking at things affects how you SEE things...and therefore how you might play. | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", WilliamS, 31. Aug 2003 07:28 | ||
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| Roy talks about this quite often. Maybe not in the exact same context but similar. I think the key to a good attitude at the table is a balanced life. I don't think a good attitude magically makes you a winner, but it does allow you to FOCUS on the game. I never play as well when I'm upset about something. I think this concept is what seperates the great players on this forum from the mediocre players on this forum. (I'm not claiming to be one of the great players by the way) Almost all of us can explain the fine points of the game. We may have minor disagreements, but basically we are on the same page. But there are obviously people with the same knowledge level who are on drastically different profit levels. I think it goes back to the fact; the person with a balanced life and good attitude is looking at game situations objectively and unemotionally; and the poorer players are allowing themselves to cloud their judgement with the emotions associated with a bad attitude. Will | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", Swagman, 31. Aug 2003 00:39 | ||
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| This was a good article. However, I found it interesting that Phil wrote about it at this point when there are currently a lot of discussion about his bad attitudes he sometimes displays publicly. I'm not so sure he would have even thought of the idea of writing about it if he wasn't aware of some of the things people have said about him. | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", 4 POKER, 31. Aug 2003 08:33 | ||
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| A strong and positive outlook is not only important......it's imperative if you want to succeed.........but that's in anything in life, not just poker. If your goals are to make money, and to be a success.......than how could a negative approach possibly help you when all that will do is cloud your thinking and keep you from making the best decisions at all times. Relating it to poker...........Players that are constantly talking about their horrendous bad beats all the time, are the same ones who remain being losers in poker because that whining allows them to think that the only thing that happened here is that "I took a bad beat", and nothing else comes into factor......nothing. They forget to take the *entire situation* at hand, and that type of (negative and cloudy) thinking prohibits them learning more, as it will decrease their chance to improve, AND could possibly make them a "target" in the game because their focus and discipline is somewhere else! 4 POKER "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity". | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", BryanW, 31. Aug 2003 10:42 | ||
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| 4Poker, Very good points. I'm really not one to dwell on bad beats. I generally left them go pretty easily, but your point about not learning from them makes a lot of sense. If your flush is beaten by a boat or your trips taken down by higher trips, it's easy to just chalk it up to a bad beat and move on. After reading your post, however, I can see that's it's important not to dwell on the negative, but it is also very important to go back and look at the hand in light of the outcome and see what signs there were that you were beaten and what you can learn about that player or future use. Thank you for the insight. Bryan | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", flintsword, 31. Aug 2003 09:15 | ||
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| Thank you all for your input. 4 POKER may have hit gold with his discussion about players of relatively equivalent playing talents achieving markedly different results. I think BryanW & WillianS understand that focus is important, but 4 POKER mentions preoccupation with bad beats, which characterizes a majority of players that always seem to lose. So, ... Could it be that to play at a higher level you have to concentrate ALL your faculties on the game, and that any "misallocation of mental resources" (a mouthful that ...) means you are missing the top game? Misallocation includes the inability to "let go" of bad beats, thinking about other things outside of factors of the game, too much imagination, fear, greed, and the list is probably long. From my chess-playing days, I can relate to this idea, and can vouch for the fact that when you are really "in tune" with a game, you are getting information from so many sources that you actually do play a level higher, and I have no reason to feel that it is different with poker, with the exception of the luck factor. So much for my philosophical ramblings, for which I apologize to some bored readers, ... on to practical things. How can a player cultivate, and put into practice, an attitude that focuses his "mental resources" to improve his game play? Objectivity. Balance in life. Knowledge of odds in general cases. Knowledge of odds in special cases. Disassociation from bad beats, permanently. Observation of opponents. Observation of timing of the game. Appreciation of broader mathematical frameworks that surround the game (ok, here is my plug for all the Paul Samuel articles, ... they are invaluable IMO), Coming to grips with your impact - as a person - on the way you play cards. Identifying bad habits. Formulating a plan to eliminate bad habits. Being able to measure your progress in eliminating bad habits. Coming to grips with the idea of cunning. Understanding the effect of the unexpected (I have never considered this before for poker, but it is intriguing ...). Studying human nature. Ok, there has to be a lot more, but my point is that even this list is broad enough to demand 100% of anyone's concentration if you want to play top level poker. Swagman did not miss the coincidence of Phil Hellmuth talking about the importance of a positive attitude with all the negative press on Phil's attitude. For the record, I this year at the WSOP, I saw Phil Hellmuth act like a gentleman as he got ground to the felt on one final table, even joking about it, so there may be a welcome change coming. Thank you all for your input. Any additions to the list of "mental resources" needed to play poker (listed above) would be appreciated. flintsword | ||
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| Re: Phil talks about "Attittude", PairTheBoard, 31. Aug 2003 13:47 | ||
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| Phil's point is really a radical one. He advocates the adoption of a particular SUPERSTITION as a tool to help maintain a confident positive attitude at the table. The superstition is that a negative attitude actually generates BAD LUCK. So if you want GOOD LUCK you must maintain a positive attitude. "Good Things Happen to Me" is one of Phil's Mantras. Of course the common scientific sophism is that superstitions are silly. Maybe so, but I don't really care. I like a lot of things that basically amount to superstition in some people's eyes. If a particular "superstition" helps me in some way, I don't mind a bit if some people think I'm being silly. I will use it. I need all the help I can get. I'm finding a lot of spiritual principles such as Positive Thinking, apply equally well at the Poker Table as in Life. Some of these are, Patience, Humor, Simplicity, Creativity, Courage, Commitment, Spontaneity, Acceptance, Flexibility, Vigilance, Perseverance, Enthusiasm, Integrity, Tolerance, Open-mindedness, Humility, Harmony, Willingness, Balance, and Gratitude. | ||
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