|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 2/13/2012 7:50:10 PM PACIFIC |
 WSOP final Table, noiseboy, 27. Aug 2003 09:58 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| OK, there has been a big divide between the players who think that Moneymaker is extremely lucky and those who think he's a good player. I tend to think he had a bit of both going on, as do all WSOP winners, but more skill than luck to come out on top over five days. With his bluff against Sammy Farha at the final table, I think Moneymaker showed the "iron balls" it takes to be a World Class Player. In Super System, Brunson talks a lot about how it takes a lot of "muscle" to be a great hold'em player, ie, unbridled aggression. Agree or Disagree? Reasons Why? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, Shawn Bright, 27. Aug 2003 10:26 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| If you ask me I would say he is very lucky, but at the same time he also has some skill to his game. I mean comon anyone who can win a online tournament to win a trip to the WSOP has to have some skill. Plus I watched his play in the tournament, and he played like he play's every day. Still I do think he had a horseshoe up his rear. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, noiseboy, 27. Aug 2003 10:36 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| No doubt, there were some times when the poker-gods definitely took his side. However, the most important hand at the final table was the bluff with Farha, and in that instance, I think he just outplayed Farha. You can't say he got the cards he wanted on that one. The second most important hand was when he doubled through Dutch Boyd calling down the bluff. In both instances, he made amazing plays that not many players can make. Either that or he's a total maniac! LOL | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, Mark Gregorich, 27. Aug 2003 11:04 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Anyone who wins this tournament has to be extremely lucky. I'm not a WSOP historian (is there such a thing?), but I would speculate that virtually every champion got insanely lucky at some point in the tournament. I don't just mean catching a two outer on the river, but sometimes lucky opportunites just arise (for example, you're a big stack, and the big stack on your right has KK when you have AA). That being said, I liked Moneymaker's play (at least the hands that ESPN showed). Sure, he overplayed some hands and occasionally caught some miracle cards (most notably the hand with Humberto), but so do most of the other good players. That is how you put yourself in a position to win. His aggressive play put pressure on his opponents to make tough decisions, and he also made some strong calls when he felt they were merited. This aggressive, fearless, fairly loose style of play has won a lot of tournaments, compared to the tight, conservative approach. Of course, the best players tend to exercise the best discretion as well. Mark | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, noiseboy, 27. Aug 2003 11:11 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I also thought it was interesting that Moneymaker was able to change gears when it became heads up. He was playing a fairly tight strategy after the flop to protect his stack, then he came out firing against Sammy. Putting myself in Farha's shoes, I can't really fault him for laying down his hand, it's an extremely tough situation as MM's bluff was played exactly like someone would slowplay a really big hand. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, Donkey X, 27. Aug 2003 11:39 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Having played w/ MM on a several occasions online and live i would say he is a slightly above avg no limit player and a mediocre limit player .During the WSOP he demonstrated the ability to stay focused and read the sit. 4 a long time ; a quality usually only exhibited in long time pros, its not just knowing the right play u must make it.Atleast the few times they show him gambling on ESPN he is the agg (ex 88 vs AA W/homberto) he sensed something and pulled the trigger he was wrong and got lucky those r the things u need 2 happen in order 2 beat 900 people . Im sure the other people at FT had ther stories it wld be diff 2 always get your $ in gd and last long enough 2 win must gmbl at some point. By the way MM is a very nice guy and his Victory along w/ TV coverage has done more 4 poker than anything, other than the internet ,in the last 20 yrs. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, Frank Grimes, 27. Aug 2003 11:48 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I also think it's funny how people seem to have noticed each time Moneymaker got lucky, but no one mentions how many times Farha flopped an ace when playing marginal hands like A-5o. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, noiseboy, 27. Aug 2003 12:42 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| If an amateur plays A5 off, he's a fish. If a pro plays A5o, he's BLUFFING. ;) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, DallasPokerFan, 27. Aug 2003 14:15 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| My thought is, if you play perfectly, meaning you go all-in with at least an 80% chance of winning the hand, then you will win 80% of the all-ins you play. Lower the %age for when you make mistakes; raise it back up for when you are called by someone with fewer chips. How much? Don't know, but I'd guesstimate that you should still be in the tournament after 85% of your all-ins. So, if you go all-in, say, 10 times, you have ~20% chance of being in the tournament. But, each all-in is still 85% .. you just have to hit the 85% so many times. This requires a lot of luck, even if you play perfectly. Example: Hellmuth's QQ v. Lester's JJ. Hellmuth made the right call (had an 80% chance of winning the hand), but was outdrawn. But, Hellmuth was still in the tourney since Lester had fewer chips. Lester got lucky and made the final table. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: WSOP final Table, TAKEDOWN, 28. Aug 2003 20:55 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It seems from the comments made by J. Chan and S. Farha that the face of big time tournament poker is quickly changing due to the internet which is breeding a group of "short term players". This new group can beat any seasoned pro in the short run which the WSOP has become to to the high number of entries being generated.As they said "Anyone can win." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network | Find Vancouver Businesses |
|