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Server Time: 9/5/2008 1:13:48 AM PACIFIC |
 Going semi-pro, AgileMike, 25. Aug 2003 17:48 | ||
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| I'm thinking about playing poker semi-professionally. A partner and I have enough for a 15K bankroll that will be used for poker only. I'd like some help on a couple of bankroll and statistics questions. 1. I have heard that 300 BB is usually a sufficient bankroll. Does everyone agree on this (at least somewhat). How does playing short-handed games compare bankroll wise? I seem to take much larger fluctuations playing in 6 person games. It would seem that they would require 500 BB or so. 2. What is your experience with quality of players at shorthanded games? Are they better/worse than quality at full tables. I much prefer to play shorthanded. I don't have the patience to play one full table at a time and I seem to loose "feel" when playing multiple tables. 3. How would two people sharing bankroll at same table affect number of units required. For example I know that at blackjack you should play like bankroll is 80% if two hands are playing from same bankroll. 4. Is 1 BB per hour all that can be expected when playing good games? I know that is the old standbye, but I would think with the explosion in popularity of hold'em that the quality of player has diminished significantly. 5. How bad does a 10% rake kill on 3/6 kill your EV. I would seem like a break even game unless the quality of players are extremely poor. This is the only B&M game I can get locally, and I need the live experience. Comments?? All replies are appreciated. Thanks in advance. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, Angel, 26. Aug 2003 01:47 | ||
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| For what it's worth I hold to the 1000 BB's for moving up. I have no experience in the semi-pro arena however - that decision is based on poker as sole income. I did some asking around with some of the local pro's after I saw your question and was surprised all of them (3) came up with 1000 BB's on their own w/o any prompting from me. I thought I was on the high side of the curve. Incidentally, all of us at one point or another have gone broke - that probably raised our number - I know mine was lower prior to that episode. With 1000 BB's I do not adjust for shorthanded - that number takes care of all contingencies. Shorthanded games have both good and bad players. Some specialize in shorthanded games - others, who may do quite well in a ring game, are the fish - do not hesitate to run if you are being outplayed by someone you can play circles around in a regular full game. The greatest tools in a pro's arsenal (imo) are patience and discipline. If you don't have the patience to play one full table at a time - you may want to consider that a flag. The 1 BB/hr is overused. At a good $4/$8 (and there are many) I expect to make $20/hr over time. At $40/$80 - maybe $60/hr. 10% rake with what limit? Are you saying that they take $10 if the pot is $100? If there is a cap of $3 - ie: 10% up to $3, then it's a different story. Good luck. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, AgileMike, 26. Aug 2003 04:29 | ||
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| Thanks for the reply. I should have described the rake a little better. It's a 3/6 game with 10% to $3 max. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, Angel, 26. Aug 2003 04:50 | ||
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| I asked about the 10% cap as I've been in some home games with no cap... The 10% to $3 is beatable in most 3/6 games. The action more than makes up for it in my opinion. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, AgileMike, 26. Aug 2003 05:09 | ||
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| I should clarify the lack of patience. I don't have the patience to play low-limit holdem at a full table on line at one table. The play is so bad I don't really feel the need to "study" all players at the table. That's the only thing I do when sitting out the folded hands. When I'm at a B&M table I have no problem studying people. When I move up stakes the players should be worthy of study and I'll have the patience to play at a full table. Thanks for the help. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, Formless, 26. Aug 2003 06:59 | ||
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| > 3. How would two people sharing bankroll at same table affect number of units > required. For example I know that at blackjack you should play like bankroll is > 80% if two hands are playing from same bankroll. Two people sharing the same bankroll in the same game is cheating, especially in shorthanded games. Don't try to say it isn't, this topic has been discussed extensively (Malmuth, Poker Essays Vol. 3, p. 154). True it does not mean that you are cheating per se but the fact is that enough situations come up where you can profit from teamplay, and what are you going to do when those situations occur? Leave money on the table? There is no GOOD reason to share bankroll, IMHO, but plenty of nefarious reasons. That is why I mark anyone who shares a bankroll as a cheat. | ||
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| Same table - collusion, AgileMike, 26. Aug 2003 15:09 | ||
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| OK, I agree with you all. I didn't really think about it. My partner and I live in separate states so we would only play same table to evaluate the other's play. I didn't plan on cheating but I realize what you mean. I'll naturally want to help my partner which is not fair to others at the table. What do online card rooms do to prevent collusion? I would think it would be rampant if nothing is done to stop it. I should be fairly easy to track with software though. | ||
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| Re: Same table - collusion, noiseboy, 27. Aug 2003 11:21 | ||
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| As long as you don't play at the same table, it's OK to share bankroll. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, Roy Cooke, 26. Aug 2003 07:04 | ||
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| Hi Mike My answers will be underneath the questions! Roy Cooke on 25. Aug 2003 17:48 AgileMike wrote: > I'm thinking about playing poker semi-professionally. A partner and I have > enough for a 15K bankroll that will be used for poker only. I'd like some help > on a couple of bankroll and statistics questions. > > 1. I have heard that 300 BB is usually a sufficient bankroll. Does everyone > agree on this (at least somewhat). How does playing short-handed games compare > bankroll wise? I seem to take much larger fluctuations playing in 6 person > games. It would seem that they would require 500 BB or so. Roy Says: That should be a sufficient enough bankroll...If you lose that many bets, you need to take a hard look at your play! > > 2. What is your experience with quality of players at shorthanded games? Are > they better/worse than quality at full tables. I much prefer to play > shorthanded. I don't have the patience to play one full table at a time and I > seem to loose "feel" when playing multiple tables. Roy Says: In Vegas the shorthanded play is pretty good. You can make much more money playing short over high at the same limit....If you want to go pro...you should learn both games! > > 3. How would two people sharing bankroll at same table affect number of units > required. For example I know that at blackjack you should play like bankroll is > 80% if two hands are playing from same bankroll. Roy Says: You should NOT play at the same table if you are sharing a bankroll...It will affect your decisions and is paramount to cheating. > > 4. Is 1 BB per hour all that can be expected when playing good games? I know > that is the old standbye, but I would think with the explosion in popularity of > hold'em that the quality of player has diminished significantly. Roy Says: It is a good guideline, but you can do better than that...particually at lower limits! > > 5. How bad does a 10% rake kill on 3/6 kill your EV. I would seem like a > break even game unless the quality of players are extremely poor. This is the > only B&M game I can get locally, and I need the live experience. Comments?? Roy Says: If you are going to take playing poker for a living seriously...move to a local in which there is constantly a spread of games available. > > All replies are appreciated. Thanks in advance. Roy Says: Your Welcome :-) | ||
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| Game selection, AgileMike, 26. Aug 2003 15:19 | ||
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| Thanks for the reply. I was thinking of playing primarily online. It seems to me there is a wider game selection and a lower skill level in the online games than in the live casinos. I do have a very limited experience with live casino games, however. My job prevents me from moving so the only live game I can play is the 3/6 which is 2 hours away. What is your assessment of the online casinos? Is it possible to make 10-20K per year playing to a 15K bankroll? Assuming I'll play 1000 hours per year. | ||
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| Re: Going semi-pro, geirel, 26. Aug 2003 07:04 | ||
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| 'A partner and I have enough for a 15K bankroll ' '3. How would two people sharing bankroll at same table affect number of units required. ' I do not think this is a good idea, it is cheating, cause sometimes you will have a decision that doesnt matter to you I.E. fold or call is same EV for you, but it might change your partners Ev, so you chose what is best for the 'Team'. So if you share bankroll then play on different tables. How would you like to play on a table where the all the other players on the table share their bankroll? Think about it..... | ||
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