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Server Time: 8/20/2008 5:09:12 AM PACIFIC |
 ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 15:04 | ||
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| Hi there everyone, I recently played ATs in a loose 6-12 HE game. Five or six limpers to me so I raise thinking if I hit the flop hard, it will tie people to the pot if I get the flop I want. I don't worry about folding out the blinds because they have been defending loosely and also it's a 2/3 small blind. Is this raise correct? Both blinds see the single raise, then someone in either first or second position reraises. I smell a big pair or big slick, everyone calls around to me, so I cap the betting with much the same reasoning that I raised previously, I want to win a huge pot if I get the best draw. This time I have the additional reason of deception because I want them to put me on a big pair so that they will pay me off when the flush hits. Is this hand good enough to cap the betting? I felt like capping might be over-aggressive, but I also thought that I have near ideal conditions for playing a suited Ace. It worked out perfectly, as I got the flush draw, and I got a lot of action for a huge pot, but I'm wondering if the pre-flop play is entirely correct. It seemed the play had the added benefit of getting me action later, so maybe this might push it over the top if the implied odds didn't get it there? How do you guys play in similar situations? What if you had another drawing-type hand like JTs or a smallish pair like 66 or 77? Thanks! | ||
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| Re: ATs question, Risky Business, 25. Aug 2003 15:18 | ||
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| ".....if I get the flop I want......." What if you don't. You haven't even seen the flop and you're already pumping money into the pot with a drawing hand. Any Ace on the board in a multi-way pot and you may be out kicked. 2 offsuit cards flop and you're just about dead there too. This is one of those hands where it sounds like you've decided you're taking the pot, or losing a bunch of money. Like you've come to play cards, not good poker. No matter what flops, you're betting or raising. If it's rags, you're representing Aces or Kings (and you better hope someone else doesn't have 'em) I'm all for getting money into a pot with a great hand, but I don't see THIS hand as the one to jump on........just yet. on 25. Aug 2003 15:04 noiseboy wrote: > Hi there everyone, > > I recently played ATs in a loose 6-12 HE game. Five or six limpers to me so I raise thinking if I hit the flop hard, it will tie people to the pot if I get the flop I want. I don't worry about folding out the blinds because they have been defending loosely and also it's a 2/3 small blind. Is this raise correct? > > Both blinds see the single raise, then someone in either first or second position reraises. I smell a big pair or big slick, everyone calls around to me, so I cap the betting with much the same reasoning that I raised previously, I want to win a huge pot if I get the best draw. This time I have the additional reason of deception because I want them to put me on a big pair so that they will pay me off when the flush hits. Is this hand good enough to cap the betting? I felt like capping might be over-aggressive, but I also thought > that I have near ideal conditions for playing a suited Ace. > > It worked out perfectly, as I got the flush draw, and I got a lot of action for > a huge pot, but I'm wondering if the pre-flop play is entirely correct. It > seemed the play had the added benefit of getting me action later, so maybe this > might push it over the top if the implied odds didn't get it there? > > How do you guys play in similar situations? What if you had another > drawing-type hand like JTs or a smallish pair like 66 or 77? > > Thanks! | ||
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| Re: ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 15:29 | ||
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| Right, but I also know that I've only invested four small bets, and if I don't flop to it, I can easily dump it. Basically, I'm looking for a flush draw, a made straight or trip tens. If I flop to it marginally, like one pair or a gutshot to the nut straight, the pot will definitely be big enough for me to see a turn card for one bet and try to spike my kicker trips or hit the gutshot if I'm on a straight draw. The other reason that I capped, is that there was a lot of check-to-the-raiser going on, thus the raise might buy me a free turn card in case I just get a small piece. I'm well aware after being reraised that pairing the A alone will not be good enough. My idea was that I've got eight players in, so the implied odds are huge, especially if I'm willing to fold if I don't hit. Maybe you're right, I'm having trouble with the calculations because of the implied odds. A lot depends on how much I think they will pay me off when I get something good. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 15:49 | ||
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| Oh, BTW, from your response, I wasn't sure if it was the first raise and the second raise you didn't like or if you just thought the cap was over the top. I'm pretty sure the first raise is defensible, although I was probably out of line capping. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, Andrew Wells, 25. Aug 2003 16:13 | ||
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| The first raise is optional. I'll often do it here as well, particularly if I think I can get the button and small blind to fold. Capping however just makes the pot too big for everyone else's potential longshot draws, and they will stay with you until the river because the pot odds are there for even a three outer. Suppose you catch something like top two on the turn, you will want a raise to have some chance of knocking out those hands that can beat you now. Keep the pot a little smaller so you have this possibility by not capping preflop. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 16:16 | ||
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| True, plus it will make it correct for ME to stay there if I have a long shot, so I might be tying myself to the pot to lose a bunch of money rather than them. Thanks for the input. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, Tim C, 25. Aug 2003 15:20 | ||
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| I think you over played your hand, I would not raise with less than AK suited. I would not count on making money wiyh this play. But thats only my opinion. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 16:13 | ||
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| Hi there, first raise, second raise or both? Thanks. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, Tim C, 26. Aug 2003 14:14 | ||
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| with AKs I would raise and reraise till its capped | ||
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| Re: ATs question, Roy Cooke, 25. Aug 2003 15:27 | ||
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| Hi NoiseBoy My answers are underneath the questions. Roy Cooke on 25. Aug 2003 15:04 noiseboy wrote: > Hi there everyone, > > I recently played ATs in a loose 6-12 HE game. Five or six limpers to me so I > raise thinking if I hit the flop hard, it will tie people to the pot if I get > the flop I want. I don't worry about folding out the blinds because they have > been defending loosely and also it's a 2/3 small blind. Is this raise > correct? Roy Says: Yes I think it is a good raise based on the value of your hand. and the facat that you appear to have good position. > > Both blinds see the single raise, then someone in either first or second > position reraises. I smell a big pair or big slick, everyone calls around to > me, so I cap the betting with much the same reasoning that I raised previously, > I want to win a huge pot if I get the best draw. This time I have the > additional reason of deception because I want them to put me on a big pair so > that they will pay me off when the flush hits. Is this hand good enough to cap > the betting? I felt like capping might be over-aggressive, but I also thought > that I have near ideal conditions for playing a suited Ace. Roy Says: No, I don't cap that bet.....If you are up against a big pair or big slick your hand is "trapped up" . you need to make the nut straight, two pair or the flush to have confinece in your hand. Those hands are hard to make! > > It worked out perfectly, as I got the flush draw, and I got a lot of action for > a huge pot, but I'm wondering if the pre-flop play is entirely correct. It > seemed the play had the added benefit of getting me action later, so maybe this > might push it over the top if the implied odds didn't get it there? Roy Says: I think you got very lucky to hit the hand that solid....ther ear a lot of flops that blank you hand. > > How do you guys play in similar situations? What if you had another > drawing-type hand like JTs or a smallish pair like 66 or 77? Roy Says: I like the play if it is likely that you will get a free card on the flop if you miss the flop....Otherwise I do not play those hands that aggressively. > > Thanks! Roy Says: Your Welcome :-) | ||
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| Re: ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 15:42 | ||
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| So do you think the fact that there was a lot of check-to-the-raiser going on would make the play correct? However, I guess since had the limp-raiser on a big pair, then it would be unlikely that he would check unless he three bet with QQ's and buys into my representation of AA's or KK's. I did consider the fact that my capping might buy me a card, which is huge if I just paired up one of my cards, or maybe give me a chance to hit the gutshot or trips, or maybe if I had a three flush, it gives me a chance to pick up the fourth suited on the turn. Hmmm, maybe this is a play I should mainly do with AQs and above, it was just a really loose table, so I kinda got caught up in it. | ||
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| Re: ATs question, noiseboy, 25. Aug 2003 16:02 | ||
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| > How do you guys play in similar situations? What if you had another > drawing-type hand like JTs or a smallish pair like 66 or 77? >>Roy Says: I like the play if it is likely that you will get a free card on the >>flop if you miss the flop....Otherwise I do not play those hands that >>aggressively. Just to clarify, this part of your response only applies to the first raise which you think is OK? I'm pretty sure that's what you meant, but just wanted to be sure. Thanks again. | ||
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| Re: if you cap it there is no strategy left, jdsalinger, 25. Aug 2003 18:42 | ||
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| it gets to big and you have to be lucky. No plays you can make and it becomes best hand showdown. Sometimes you have to gamble and this will get you extra action in the future. But I usually avoid big pots in limit play. unless it's AKs or AA or KK. | ||
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