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Server Time: 8/30/2008 2:48:57 AM PACIFIC |
 Bluffing the unbluffable, grant pittman, 24. Aug 2003 19:15 | ||
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| One error that I see quite often in a poker game occurs when a player tries to bluff another player who calls with virtually any hand on the end. It often follows that there is a comment by the bluffer that goes along these lines "How could you call me?????? What could you beat???" The answer of course is that the player DOESN'T KNOW what he could beat thats why he called!! He wants to see if he has you beat....simple. Most of the times your unbluffable opponents will be weak players with little knowledge of the game but it is not uncommon to see a reasonably sound player on absolute payoff tilt. Take note of your opponents play and save that bet or bets instead of trying to bluff the unbluffable. Just a thought. GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: Bluffing the unbluffable, Swagman, 24. Aug 2003 20:28 | ||
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| Lot depends on the level of game. Low blinds will generally mean that a bluff will more often fail, because it costs less to prove. However, I feel occasionally it is right to make that call on the river even if you know your beaten, or suspect your being bluffed, letting the person know that a bluff may not be the best thing in the future against you. Am I wrong? | ||
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| Re: Bluffing the unbluffable, Sredni Vashtar, 24. Aug 2003 23:20 | ||
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| That is a very good point. Sredni noticed these types of hopeless bluffs occur with fair regularity in shorthanded games. In short games it is often quite correct to call down with fairly weak hands such as A high. The countermeasure to this is to alter your value betting fulcrum. Whereas with a typical player you might value bet the river in a certain situation with, say (and Sredni is just pulling this out of the hutch) top pair weak kicker, and not bet less, against an unbluffable you might bet all the way down to bottom pair good kicker. This is really hard to give a generic answer. In short games it is not impossible to bet AK high for VALUE in some places. Poker is a dynamic game. Sredni Vashtar. | ||
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| Re: Bluffing the unbluffable, Giocatore, 25. Aug 2003 07:37 | ||
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| Grant, I play exclusively online and based on my observations over the past few years, I have come to the conclusion that it is nearly impossible to bluff online due to the "cyber chip phenomenon," which basically holds that an extra call is a mere click of the mouse as opposed to physically throwing additional chips into the pot and watching your stack dwindle before your eyes. I have seen just about everything, from 2-2 calling down A-Q with a board of K-K-J-9-8 including 4 clubs where the deuces called A-Q down, in a 20/40 game no less, to people calling down with king high and losing to ace high with a board of rags. I realize that bluffing constitutes an important part of a successful poker player's arsenal, but I have just about given up attempting to do such online and found that it has gradually helped to preserve my bankroll. Of course, this is just my own personal observation. I don't know if you play online at all, but if you do, I'm curious to hear your or anyone else's thoughts on "bluffing online." Thanks in advance. Giocatore | ||
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| Re: Bluffing the unbluffable, e-babes, 25. Aug 2003 10:14 | ||
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| I actually bluff better on line, but I don't play at your level, so I don't know if I can help you. I think if you keep on firing at the pot, people fold more on-line. They look at their hand, feel they've been beat and fold. It works a lot better on-line versus B&M, IMHO. e-babes | ||
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| Re: Bluffing the unbluffable, Formless, 25. Aug 2003 09:21 | ||
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| I find I make tougher laydowns on the river in B & M games because you have a better 'feel' for your opponent live. Conversely, I call more online. But, I wonder if feelings are involved too. I think I make bolder plays sometimes online because of anonymity, i.e. I will feel less negative reinforcement when bluffing, semi-bluffing, checkraising, bankshotting. I think people bluff substantially less in B & M games than optimal game theory would suggest because of the shame and negative feelings your opponents project on you when you get caught. This is more true at lower limits with less sophisticated players. Conversely, I think people bluff more online because of this phenomenon. One other thing to balance all of this though: about a year ago I had a revelation about what was the biggest leak in my game I could find, and this applies maybe tenfold for no limit: The three words that cost me the most money in poker are: "He's bluffing me". Poker is hard ;-) | ||
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| Re: Bluffing the unbluffable, stdioh, 28. Aug 2003 11:17 | ||
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| No kidding. I'm always amused when I sit at a table and see a relatively good player jamming in a river raise with a busted draw against a guy who learned to play watching WPT last night who thinks his pair of deuces is a decent enough hand. | ||
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