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Server Time: 2/13/2012 1:55:29 PM PACIFIC |
 Limit Holdem situation, * Craig *, 24. Aug 2003 11:27 | ||
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| Hi, this is my first post here at UPF. I play mostly online 15-30 & 20-40 Holdem. I often find myself in a dilemma when I raise pre-flop with AK or AQ or whatever and get one caller, say the BB. Now , I miss the flop, my opponent checks and I bet, he calls. I also miss the turn and my opponent checks it to me again. Now this is where my dilemma is. Do I bet hoping to win right there or do I check for the free card hoping to hit the river? I've played it both ways several times, and these are the things that have happened. 1. When I've bet the turn my opponent has check raised me and then it's pretty tough to call with nothing so I fold, however there are players who will check raise a draw on the turn or with nothing so by betting I gave up my free card and chance to win on the river via showdown. 2. When I bet the turn my opponent calls and I miss the river. My opponent checks , I check ... he missed too and I win with A high. 3. When I've checked the turn and then missed the river my opponent checks and I check and I've won some lost some here. Now ,I'm not sure if u should always bet the river here? 4. When I've checked the turn and then missed the river, my opponent comes out betting ( which happens a lot ) and often they're bluffing here for value because they missed too. So do u call with A high?? So what is the correct strategy in this Heads up situation? ( sorry for the long winded post, hope I make sense) Thanks for your time. Craig | ||
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| Re: Limit Holdem situation, Andrew Wells, 24. Aug 2003 11:54 | ||
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| The correct strategy is player dependent, as your post alludes. I'll bet the turn against the type of players who will generally lay down anything from top pair weak kicker or less. I won't check the turn against players who will bet the river with anything, including a busted draw. I think the free card play is overrated in middle limit games, especially heads-up or three handed on the flop. So I will most often follow through on the turn. Against some tight players who will not checkraise semibluff much, I will sometimes take the free card. Sometimes I check the turn and fake the free card play when I catch top pair, inducing a bluff. If I have been seen doing this once or twice in a session, then I'm more inclined to take a free card with AK later. So current table image is another factor to consider here. I doubt there's anything really novel to add to these situations, and you probably know all this stuff anyway. | ||
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| Re: Limit Holdem situation, MozMan, 24. Aug 2003 11:57 | ||
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| Hey Craig- My resposes are below: on 24. Aug 2003 11:27 * Craig * wrote: > Hi, this is my first post here at UPF. Welcome to UPF! Happy to have you. :) > > I play mostly online 15-30 & 20-40 Holdem. I often find myself in a dilemma > when I raise pre-flop with AK or AQ or whatever and get one caller, say the BB. > Now , I miss the flop, my opponent checks and I bet, he calls. I also miss the > turn and my opponent checks it to me again. Now this is where my dilemma is. > Do I bet hoping to win right there or do I check for the free card hoping to hit > the river? Moz: I struggle with this often as well. I don't think there is an easy answer, but here are some of my thoughts... > > I've played it both ways several times, and these are the things that have > happened. 1. When I've bet the turn my opponent has check raised me and then > it's pretty tough to call with nothing so I fold, however there are players who > will check raise a draw on the turn or with nothing so by betting I gave up my > free card and chance to win on the river via showdown. Moz: This is really about knowing your opponent and acting according to what you know he will play in these situations and what you know he will do most of the time with those hands. If you know he's the kind of guy who wants the free card but will raise a draw, then calling the raise might not be a bad idea. If he's a pretty straight-forward player who will only check-raise with a hand, then the bet/fold is a good play; you can fold in good conscience knowing he is on something; I like this better than checking for the free card because he will almost always bluff bet at you on the river. >2. When I bet the turn my > opponent calls and I miss the river. My opponent checks , I check ... he missed > too and I win with A high. Moz: again, the trick here is knowing your opponent AND ALSO what fell on the river. First, your opponent: If you think he's the type of guy to check-raise the river, either as a bluff or because he hit, then just check down and let the cards speak. If you think he's the type who would have bet if he hit something, then bet it and see what he does. If he's on a very mediocre hand, you might get him to fold off even though he's ahead; if he's got nothing he may fold off, then you don't have to show and give away too much information about how you play. Second, the river card: If it's a big-scary and he checks, then a bet here is probably good... maybe put it out with some amount of excitement to scare him off. If it is a blank, then a bluff is less-likely to work, especially if your opponent does not make you for someone to play trash. >3. When I've checked the turn and then missed the > river my opponent checks and I check and I've won some lost some here. Now ,I'm > not sure if u should always bet the river here? Moz: See my comments in response to #2... >4. When I've checked the turn > and then missed the river, my opponent comes out betting ( which happens a lot > ) and often they're bluffing here for value because they missed too. So do u > call with A high?? Moz: Know your opponent and what card hit... also, how big is the pot. Solid opponent, with a big-scary card, small pot; fold. Big pot, call. An opponent who likes to bluff a lot, scary card, big pot; call or reraise. Small pot... probably fold. If the river is a blank; it's unlikely he actually hit something, you're probably getting better odds to call... > > So what is the correct strategy in this Heads up situation? ( sorry for the > long winded post, hope I make sense) Thanks for your time. Moz: Correct? I don't know... :) I could be completely off-base, I guess. Maybe some of the pros will chime in and I will learn something about my play! Do worry about long-winded; this is a good topic for discussion, I think. > > Craig > > -Moz "mmmm.... open faced club sand wedge." | ||
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| Re: Limit Holdem situation, FiveV, 24. Aug 2003 13:10 | ||
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| This comes up for me a lot too. I agree this is very situational and dependent on your opponents image. However lets suppose this is online and you do not know your opponent very well at all. Do you guys typically bet the flop and turn with ace high heads up or three handed? I know there is no set answer, but am curious what you guys do typically. | ||
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| Re: Limit Holdem situation, Roy Cooke, 24. Aug 2003 13:17 | ||
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| Hi Craig this is a very good post and a tough situation for all players. You should check the turn if the player is of the texture to move on you or slowplay.....Generally this texture of player bets the river if you check and you are forced to pay off....This play is not perfect as sometimes you give your opponent a free card to beat you...but at least you got to the river and did not get played off the pot! You should bet the turn against passive players...Generally I check the river if called and hope they were on a draw....But if they call the turn with a pair they generally call the river hoping you have AK or AQ. If it is the texture of player that will fold a small pair then you should bet as a bluff. Life is Good :-) Roy Cooke on 24. Aug 2003 11:27 * Craig * wrote: > Hi, this is my first post here at UPF. > > I play mostly online 15-30 & 20-40 Holdem. I often find myself in a dilemma > when I raise pre-flop with AK or AQ or whatever and get one caller, say the BB. > Now , I miss the flop, my opponent checks and I bet, he calls. I also miss the > turn and my opponent checks it to me again. Now this is where my dilemma is. > Do I bet hoping to win right there or do I check for the free card hoping to hit > the river? > > I've played it both ways several times, and these are the things that have > happened. 1. When I've bet the turn my opponent has check raised me and then > it's pretty tough to call with nothing so I fold, however there are players who > will check raise a draw on the turn or with nothing so by betting I gave up my > free card and chance to win on the river via showdown. 2. When I bet the turn my > opponent calls and I miss the river. My opponent checks , I check ... he missed > too and I win with A high. 3. When I've checked the turn and then missed the > river my opponent checks and I check and I've won some lost some here. Now ,I'm > not sure if u should always bet the river here? 4. When I've checked the turn > and then missed the river, my opponent comes out betting ( which happens a lot > ) and often they're bluffing here for value because they missed too. So do u > call with A high?? > > So what is the correct strategy in this Heads up situation? ( sorry for the > long winded post, hope I make sense) Thanks for your time. > > Craig > > | ||
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