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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:56:08 PM PACIFIC |
 Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), verb2752, 22. Aug 2003 07:50 | ||
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| Hi everyone, I have been reading on here for awhile but not posting, and I respect your opinions and have a questions for you all.... I played in an online Holdem Tourney yesterday with 319 entrants and made it to the final table. Play progressed and I got lucky on an all-in (short-stacked) and eventually I ended up head's up with the chip leader. He had me by almost a $1M when we started. I pulled even and the final hand went like this... He had $1.7M, and I had $1.4M...... He was playing very tight, I think he was scared he would lose & anytime I bet out big he would fold or just call, he just called me down one time with trips.... He never raised pre-flop head's up, so starting hands were tough to read. So, I started getting aggressive figuring that I could control the flow of the game that way, and if I was going to lose, then it would be on my terms. Final Hand.... $5k antes with $20k/$40K blinds....I was in the BB with 10s-6c..... He limped in on the button and I raised it to $60k to go and he called. The flop came 10d-6h-9c...... I was first to act and with two pair was loving my position. I made it $200k to go and he took a long time and eventually called me. I figured he had a straight draw working, maybe he was holding J-8 or even Q-J with him but I figured if he had a pair even better maybe 10's or 9's, if so, I am ahead both ways right now..... I did not want him drawing a straight on me though and I went all-in with my 2-pair figuring that he would have to think hard, because it would be almost over if he lost the hand. He took a long time again and called the all-in and the cards were shown...... His hand...As-9h, he had called an all-in with a pair of 9's..... Well, it figures that an Ace hit the river and his two pair A's-9's beat my 10's-6's and it was over for me. Was I over aggressive with the all-in bet? Should I have bet like $350k or something? I can't help but think that I may have overplayed the hand, but I did fell like my 2-pair were the best hand at the time. Suggestions and criticism are welcome. Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), Tim C, 22. Aug 2003 09:13 | ||
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| verb2752 What hit on the turn? You said he called and you went all in, there is more info needed. If you went all in on the flop, I think he would have to fold. If you went all in on the turn, did he pick up some type of draw to keep him in? Any way great finish. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), verb2752, 22. Aug 2003 11:48 | ||
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| Tim C, Soory, that does look confusing.... I bet $200k after the flop, I wanted it big enough to make him think about paying for his draw, yet small enough to give me some information if he did call.... 4th street was a rag, a duece, it could not of helped a draw in any way, so I moved in after that..... | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), TexRoadkill, 22. Aug 2003 09:15 | ||
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| I think you played it okay. You were protecting two top pair and he got very lucky. It's hard to believe a tight player would have called you on that. He must have thought you were trying to buy the pot based on earlier aggressive moves. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), verb2752, 22. Aug 2003 12:04 | ||
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| I think he called because of the aggressive moves I made on him earlier in the final table and head's up match. When we went head's up I made huge raises and even went all in a number of times. I showed him the marginal hands after he folded. I showed him the last marginal hand move I made that brought me within striking distance of his chip lead, knowing that I was going to shift gears and only make large raises and all-in's with good hands, hoping for loose calls. It really worked well on him. It would have never worked with a solid player, but he was too conservative to call me. Until the end that is....lol | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), Schuster, 22. Aug 2003 15:15 | ||
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| If you're making moves with marginal hands and showing him, then you definately don't want to be raising it up before the flop with T6o. Your strategy worked out well after the flop since you flopped 2 pair, but if you want him to pay you off with less than strong hands, then don't be raising with the chaff! | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), noiseboy, 22. Aug 2003 09:27 | ||
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| How you played the hand after the flop was fine, two pair is a monster heads-up considering that a lot of time A or K high will take down a pot. However, I would question playing the T6o in the first place in this situation. When playing heads-up, you want to have something that might hold up on it's own or at least has some high card value, ie, any pair, any A, a K with an eight or above, two cards above 99, etc... It is true that you MUST bluff and you have to defend your blinds, but when you bluff with a crap hand, you should be raising to give your opponent a chance to fold. Gus Hansen, for instance, is capable of playing ANY two cards (and I do mean ANY two) but he is usually putting so much pressure on his opponent that there is a good chance he will never have to show his weak hands. If the opponent plays back at him, then he can get away from it because usually a tight player will need to have the nuts or something really strong to play back. Thus he knows where his opponent is, but his opponents have no idea where he is in the hand. Anyway, you just were drawn out as the hand was played after the flop, you got your money in with the best of it, and sometimes things just don't work out the way we hope. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), noiseboy, 22. Aug 2003 09:30 | ||
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| Oops, I just reread the post and realized that you made the preflop raise. I guess this is OK since there is a chance you can steal, although I think maybe T6o is a little bit weak for that play. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), verb2752, 22. Aug 2003 11:51 | ||
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| Noiseboy, I wil tell you why I was playing hands like that against him.... He never raised pre-flop and if he did , I would muck knowing he was tight. I was looking for a hand that he could never put me on, and have a flop + give me a straight or trips to bust him when he had a high pair. It worked with great success earlier to get me back to near even. I had him gun-shy to raise me, which is a great spot. he must of thought I was trying to muscle him off the hand when I went all in..... | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), noiseboy, 22. Aug 2003 14:27 | ||
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| I see, I guess that makes sense, sometimes I do that too. Sometimes it works like a charm, sometimes it can backfire. Sklansky talks about how if someone is playing too tight heads up, you can raise almost EVERY hand and make profit if they don't call enough so your thinking was probably correct. I have no problem with you going all-in with two pair heads-up. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), Roger Rains, 22. Aug 2003 09:29 | ||
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| No doubt he thought you were on a bluff and got lucky. I would have considered he was slow playing a set of 9s given the play. If you had the control you suggest, I see no reason to try to take him in one hand. I would be more inclined in that direction if I was getting pushed around by a great player. I have promised myself I will never go all in again on 2 pair if I am called on a big bet after the flop, by an average player. The computer may say yes but getting taken apart several times buy a small set tells me NO. I am a slightly above average player against good players, so it would be nice to hear more on playing 2 pair after the flop, from a really good player...Rogeron 22. Aug 2003 07:50 verb2752 wrote: > Hi everyone, I have been reading on here for awhile but not posting, and I > respect your opinions and have a questions for you all.... I played in an > online Holdem Tourney yesterday with 319 entrants and made it to the final > table. Play progressed and I got lucky on an all-in (short-stacked) and > eventually I ended up head's up with the chip leader. He had me by almost a $1M > when we started. I pulled even and the final hand went like this... > > He had $1.7M, and I had $1.4M...... He was playing very tight, I think he was > scared he would lose & anytime I bet out big he would fold or just call, he just > called me down one time with trips.... He never raised pre-flop head's up, so > starting hands were tough to read. So, I started getting aggressive figuring > that I could control the flow of the game that way, and if I was going to lose, > then it would be on my terms. > > Final Hand.... $5k antes with $20k/$40K blinds....I was in the BB with > 10s-6c..... He limped in on the button and I raised it to $60k to go and he > called. The flop came 10d-6h-9c...... I was first to act and with two pair > was loving my position. I made it $200k to go and he took a long time and > eventually called me. I figured he had a straight draw working, maybe he was > holding J-8 or even Q-J with him but I figured if he had a pair even better > maybe 10's or 9's, if so, I am ahead both ways right now..... > > I did not want him drawing a straight on me though and I went all-in with my > 2-pair figuring that he would have to think hard, because it would be almost > over if he lost the hand. He took a long time again and called the all-in and > the cards were shown...... His hand...As-9h, he had called an all-in with a pair > of 9's..... Well, it figures that an Ace hit the river and his two pair A's-9's > beat my 10's-6's and it was over for me. > > Was I over aggressive with the all-in bet? Should I have bet like $350k or > something? I can't help but think that I may have overplayed the hand, but I > did fell like my 2-pair were the best hand at the time. Suggestions and > criticism are welcome. Thanks. | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), verb2752, 22. Aug 2003 11:57 | ||
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| Roger, That is a great point, I have also been burned by plays that boggle your mind. It makes me wonder sometimes if the guy is average player or a serious stud to slow play all the time. In this case, I am feeling like I overplayed the hand by going all in..... I think a $350k bet would have been better, I still would have had $600-700k left after that to try and come back with. I will definitely learn from this though..... | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), Roger Rains, 22. Aug 2003 13:35 | ||
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| Verb, The only time you really lose in Poker is if you go broke or don't take responsibility for the cards you played. As a trader, golfer, and card player, I have learned that most people refuse to do this. I believe that is the main reason for so many losers. Most golf writers not being poker players, do not realize that Jack Nicklaus did not win most of his majors, the other players beat themseves. He knew if he made the best choices for "his" game consistently he would win the most over time, despite the occasional bad bounce/beat. Congratulations on a great attitude...Roger | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), Schuster, 22. Aug 2003 12:02 | ||
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| > Final Hand.... $5k antes with $20k/$40K blinds....I was in the BB with > 10s-6c..... He limped in on the button and I raised it to $60k to go and he > called. You mean you made it 60k more for 100 total I assume? This is the type of hand that you want to check and see a free flop. Don't commit chips with a bad hand just trying to get him to fold before the flop, especially against an opponent who never raises. How do you know he isn't holding something big? A decent flop for you here would be top pair 10's, and in that case, you have no kicker. The only thing you can bet strongly is if you flop 2 pair or better. When you went all in, he might have read it as a bluff and you trying to buy the pot. After all, when someone raises me out of the blind, I tend to put them on bigger cards, and a ten high board doesn't seem like it would hit them. I'd bet smaller here, maybe 500k. Putting that much of your stack should signal that you're going to play if he comes over the top of you, and he should muck anything less than premium. Lee | ||
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| Re: Final Table - Did I play this right? (Long), verb2752, 22. Aug 2003 12:10 | ||
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| > You mean you made it 60k more for 100 total I assume? This is the type of hand that > you want to check and see a free flop. Don't commit chips with a bad hand just > trying to get him to fold before the flop, especially against an opponent who never > raises. How do you know he isn't holding something big? A decent flop for you here > would be top pair 10's, and in that case, you have no kicker. The only thing you can > bet strongly is if you flop 2 pair or better. > > When you went all in, he might have read it as a bluff and you trying to buy the > pot. After all, when someone raises me out of the blind, I tend to put them on > bigger cards, and a ten high board doesn't seem like it would hit them. I'd bet > smaller here, maybe 500k. Putting that much of your stack should signal that you're > going to play if he comes over the top of you, and he should muck anything less than > premium. > > Lee Correct, I made it $100K to go.... I know, loose at best, but up until then not much had been happening, so I was making a play, figuring that he may fold his hand before the flop. If he re-raised me, I would have mucked and if he called and the flop was bad, I am almost %100 sure he would have checked and I would have probably just checked it down or folded as soon as he bet..... Thanks for advice on the $500k bet, I will remember that..... | ||
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