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Server Time: 10/15/2008 4:11:09 PM PACIFIC |
 First Post - A hand with Mason Malmuth, Formless, 21. Aug 2003 08:52 | ||
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| Hi, My first time here, I'm trying to get a feel for this place but I'm impressed with the roster. Here's an actual hand from my first trip to Las Vegas, in April 2003. 30-60 Holdem at Bellagio, time game. You are a youngish player in BB unknown to others. 9 handed, Mason, new at table, open raises 4 off the button, all fold to me in BB, I have JK off, I call. Flop comes AJK rainbow. I checkraise the flop, MM calls. 4 on turn. I bet, he calls. River is a T, no flush. Check check, he shows AJ. Discuss. I'll post my thought process in a separate post. | ||
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| Re: First Post - A hand with Mason Malmuth, Formless, 21. Aug 2003 09:08 | ||
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| > 9 handed, Mason, new at table, open raises 4 off the button, all fold to me in > BB, I have JK off, I call. I remember this exact moment; I was borderline on calling here but was thinking about a post Sklansky made on 2+2 prior to my trip regarding making loose raises in early/mid position in tight games versus poor players in BB, raising stuff like K8s to get heads up w/ position with players you can outplay post-flop. That, and the possibility it could be a Gap-type opener like QJs; I had a hunch he had a semistealy type of hand, in other words. After playing with him that weekend and asking around though, Mason doesn't get out of line very often preflop. Regardless, I think calling with KJ vs Mason was a mistake, but would call with KQ. > Flop comes AJK rainbow. I checkraise the flop, MM calls. I checkraise to see where I'm at. His flat-call makes me think he's got something like AQ or AT. > 4 on turn. I bet, he calls. I remeber thinking I'm probably good here. AK would had to have popped me by now, ditto AJ. Q10 is unlikely. But what is he flat calling me with? I think pair and gut-straight. > River is a T, no flush. Check check, he shows AJ. I check here because he may have hit straight or his kicker here. | ||
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| Re: First Post - A hand with Mason Malmuth, Barry T, 21. Aug 2003 09:21 | ||
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| Hi. Mason is not your average Joe. He plays extremely tight (you do not reallyknow this at the time) and a raise that early is a verygood hand. Unlike, say, me, Mason is not tryingt o screw around with the weak blind players. (Neither is David, for that matter,most of the time, even though he is correct insaying it is correct to do so). So: a) syes, you sho8uld definitely fold. if you recognized Mason,thaenat least yu shoulkdrealize he is a very good player. Sayto yur self "Winningpoker is not about playingmediocre hands outof position againstprofessional playerswith quality hands." Having played you should scaredto death of Mason's CALL of your check raise. After all, you called int he blind againstMason, then check-raised wth an AK on the board. You must hanve a monster to make this play (in Mason'sview). He would. It is very good you are thinking about these things.Listen,the single most important think about blind defense is: Do not defend against excellent players. Do defend against poor players. BarryT | ||
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| Re: First Post - A hand with Mason Malmuth, Jav, 21. Aug 2003 09:22 | ||
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| I think I would have played every street the way you did, except maybe calling pre-flop. But that's the kind of decision that's hard to make without having sat at the table for awhile. I guess my only point would be beware of talking yourself into calls that you might otherwise not normally make. I've made the mistake many times of putting my opponent on a hand I could beat just to justify making a call. (Obviously that's not the way I was thinking at the time, but the result still ends up with me losing money!) Welcome to the forum. | ||
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| Re: First Post - A hand with Mason Malmuth, grant pittman, 21. Aug 2003 09:33 | ||
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| Well.......I would have played Masons hand a little differently but I can sort of see what is going through his mind. He doesn't know you this is true but he has lots of playing experience and if you also do your demeanor will show it. Mason likely surmised that you had some experience and so when you check raised him on this flop he probably picked up on the fact that you were confident with your holding(since you were after flopping 2 pair). That being said I still would have popped you on the turn and made you think but I'm sure Mason is thinking "I can beat A10 or AQ but not AK or Q10 ". Mason may have also thought you held the same hand so he leaned towards the conservative side on the play of this hand. Your post flop confidence probably swayed him this way. Good post!!! GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| Re: First Post - A hand with Mason Malmuth, Mike Caro, 21. Aug 2003 11:57 | ||
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| on 21. Aug 2003 08:52 Formless wrote: > Hi, > > My first time here, I'm trying to get a feel for this place but I'm > impressed with the roster. > > Here's an actual hand from my first trip to Las Vegas, in April 2003. > 30-60 Holdem at Bellagio, time game. You are a youngish player in BB unknown to > others. > > 9 handed, Mason, new at table, open raises 4 off the button, all fold to me in > BB, I have JK off, I call. > > Flop comes AJK rainbow. I checkraise the flop, MM calls. > > 4 on turn. I bet, he calls. > > River is a T, no flush. Check check, he shows AJ. > > Discuss. I'll post my thought process in a separate post. Hi, Formless -- Welcome to UPF. Both you and Mason played this hand correctly, although you could have each chosen different options as alternatives. It is almost impossible for you to justify folding pre-flop (although some experts so advise), unless you're outmatched against this player and believe you'll lose money from that point on. The reason you should normally call is that the pot is laying you (assuming the small blind is $10) $55 to $15 or 3.67-to-1. True, you'll be in a poor position, acting first, the rest of the way, but these pot odds still mean that if your hand would win just 25 percent of the time, if played to the showdown, it's probably worth the call -- even though strategic decisions make you less likely to reach the showdown than Mason. (There are other considerations, too, making that 25 percent just a rough target, not a set-in-stone guideline.) It turns out that K-J wins much more than that 25 percent showdown target against ANY reasonable set of standards from four seats off the button. Straight Flushes, Mike Caro | ||
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