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Server Time: 2/13/2012 7:49:44 PM PACIFIC |
 All in Preflop with KK in NL tourney. Right play?, mroban, 18. Aug 2003 13:17 | ||
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| So I am playing in an Aruba $22 tourney last night and it is a pretty good table. Playing supertight, only played two hands the first two rounds. both of those hands, I had JJ, made a pot sized raise preflop and was called by the player immediately to my left (who was playing far too many hands and stack was swinging wildly). Both times, I missed the flop, and either checked and was bet all in, or made a small bet (when there were no overcards) and was re-raised all in. Early in the tournament I folded both of those hands, not wanting to put all my chips in with a hand that might have been beat (a set, both had straight and flush possibilities). Anyway, I had gotten down to T400, battled back to T850 and the blinds were at 30-60. Not desperate, but there were 8 players left and I was the third smallest stack. The player to my left had just lost a huge pot and now was the smallest stack. Thats when I get KK in the SB. Everyone passed to me. What to do? I could raise the pot and hope to get a call or be happy with the 60 in the pot. However, I had a great read on this player. I knew he was very aggressive, and if I limped he would try to steal with a raise. Sure enough, I limped and he made a small raise (the minimum 120). I had two options - call and play the flop OR go all in and hope he folds. I read him for a weak hand trying to steal (I had played very tight up to that time and had folded a bunch of hands) and I did not think he would call all in. so I went all in and he calls me! Flips over Ac6c to my KK. The flop comes 9J3 rainbow with one club. The turn is Qc. Okay, but now he has the flush draw. River is...an ace. And I am down to T180. I battled back to T380 and then when the blinds were 50-100 I got blinded back down and went all in with AKs (losing to 66). Anyway, I think putting him all in was a bad play. Even though my read was perfect, I think I should have just called, saw the flop and gone all in after the flop. No way he could call all in after that flop. Does anybody disagree with that? If I had called and made another raise of, say 300, he would have been pot committed, and would have called an all in after the turn with the 4flush hitting. So either I made the correct move (and took a bad beat) or I should have called preflop and gone all in after the flop. I really was shocked he called off all his chips with that hand. Afterward, I commented to him "nice hand, but I can't believe you called that". And he actually said to me "I didn't like you limping in on my BB". I thought he was kidding but he wasn't. I replied "you mean you would prefer me to raise your blinds instead?" He wrote back "well, i would have folded". Huh? Anyway, as I trudged off to a 6 handed $1/$2 ring game, I noticed in the lower left hand corner that he ended up getting one of the two winning spots. Ouch. In total, I lost the tournament playing JJ, JJ, KK and AKs. The only two hands I won was a steal with A6s (ironically) and KJs (won on a stone cold bluff). No love from UB. Guess Aruba is not in the "cards" for me this year. | ||
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| Re: All in Preflop with KK in NL tourney. Right play?, Risky Business, 18. Aug 2003 13:26 | ||
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| Personally, I think it was perfect. You can't put him on a flush draw until he calls you, but if he's only chasing an Ace, you have to like your odds. Many a NL tourney hand is won against people chasing those slippery Aces. You may have won the pot by raising higher, but who knows. Don't beat yourself up about it, it sounds like this guy is the type to play 'any ace'. on 18. Aug 2003 13:17 mroban wrote: > So I am playing in an Aruba $22 tourney last night and it is a pretty good > table. Playing supertight, only played two hands the first two rounds. both of > those hands, I had JJ, made a pot sized raise preflop and was called by the > player immediately to my left (who was playing far too many hands and stack was > swinging wildly). Both times, I missed the flop, and either checked and was bet > all in, or made a small bet (when there were no overcards) and was re-raised all > in. Early in the tournament I folded both of those hands, not wanting to put > all my chips in with a hand that might have been beat (a set, both had straight > and flush possibilities). > > Anyway, I had gotten down to T400, battled back to T850 and the blinds were at > 30-60. Not desperate, but there were 8 players left and I was the third > smallest stack. The player to my left had just lost a huge pot and now was the > smallest stack. > > Thats when I get KK in the SB. Everyone passed to me. What to do? I could > raise the pot and hope to get a call or be happy with the 60 in the pot. > However, I had a great read on this player. I knew he was very aggressive, and > if I limped he would try to steal with a raise. > > Sure enough, I limped and he made a small raise (the minimum 120). I had two > options - call and play the flop OR go all in and hope he folds. I read him for > a weak hand trying to steal (I had played very tight up to that time and had > folded a bunch of hands) and I did not think he would call all in. > > so I went all in and he calls me! Flips over Ac6c to my KK. The flop comes > 9J3 rainbow with one club. The turn is Qc. Okay, but now he has the flush > draw. River is...an ace. And I am down to T180. I battled back to T380 and > then when the blinds were 50-100 I got blinded back down and went all in with > AKs (losing to 66). > > Anyway, I think putting him all in was a bad play. Even though my read was > perfect, I think I should have just called, saw the flop and gone all in after > the flop. No way he could call all in after that flop. > > Does anybody disagree with that? If I had called and made another raise of, > say 300, he would have been pot committed, and would have called an all in after > the turn with the 4flush hitting. > > So either I made the correct move (and took a bad beat) or I should have called > preflop and gone all in after the flop. > > I really was shocked he called off all his chips with that hand. Afterward, I > commented to him "nice hand, but I can't believe you called that". And he > actually said to me "I didn't like you limping in on my BB". I thought he was > kidding but he wasn't. I replied "you mean you would prefer me to raise your > blinds instead?" He wrote back "well, i would have folded". Huh? > > Anyway, as I trudged off to a 6 handed $1/$2 ring game, I noticed in the lower > left hand corner that he ended up getting one of the two winning spots. Ouch. > > In total, I lost the tournament playing JJ, JJ, KK and AKs. The only two hands > I won was a steal with A6s (ironically) and KJs (won on a stone cold bluff). No > love from UB. > > Guess Aruba is not in the "cards" for me this year. | ||
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| Re: All in Preflop with KK in NL tourney. Right play?, Frank Grimes, 18. Aug 2003 13:50 | ||
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| The biggest problem going all in is that he essentially gets a "free" look all the way down to the river. Although his all-in call was ill-advised, you would have gotten more value with a substantial re-raise and then all-in on the flop should have scared him away. Who knows, he may still have called it down, but at least you would have made him make that decision twice, and the second time he would clearly have been behind. His comment is completely illogical. | ||
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| Re: All in Preflop with KK in NL tourney. Right play?, mroban, 18. Aug 2003 15:01 | ||
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| Thanks guys. I thought (at the time) I made the perfect play. I mean jeez, I read this guy like a book. Got him to put all his chips in when he was a huge underdog to my hand and at a time when I really needed the chip boost. What more could you ask for? BUT...as Frank mentioned, I could have just made a big raise preflop instead of putting in most of my stack. But I wanted to put HIM all in (I still had chips left, although it left me desperate). Hate playing well and losing... thanks for the input. | ||
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| Re: All in Preflop with KK in NL tourney. Right play?, Eaglesfan1, 18. Aug 2003 21:13 | ||
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| I agree with your play. Though he is super aggressive you gotta expect him to fold. You milked the extra 60 out of him (or should have), that was a good play, no way he should have been calling with A6. | ||
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