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Server Time: 2/13/2012 4:15:40 PM PACIFIC |
 Overpair Limbo - Thoughts and Strategies?, SendMoney, 18. Aug 2003 08:53 | ||
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| One of the most difficult aspects of mastering Texas Hold Em is the play of overpairs, especially in raised pots. You bring KK to the dance, your opponent brings AA, and by the river the board is 10 high, needless to say you're going to lose some money here. Another time you bring QQ to a similar party and you lose to KK. Of course the average player should be on the winning end of a fair number of these battles as well, but are there any decent strategies for saving money when you figure to have the worst of it? Example: I'm in the local B&M playing $4-$8 Hold Em, the table is fairly loose/passive. I'm in the small blind with QQ, it's folded to me, I raise and the BB 3 bets! BB is a decent/solid player so I call. Flop comes 2 7 10 rainbow, I bet out, BB calls - I hope his smooth call indicates AK or JJ. Turn comes a 5, I bet again, BB calls again. River comes a 9, I bet again, BB calls again. I turn up my pocket queens, BB turns up pocket kings. After the hand I say "Man you had kings and you didn't raise the flop or turn?" (we were friendly enough) to which he replied "I thought you had the aces." I don't think I could have played this hand any differently, if I bet out and get called it's about the same as if I check and called, but I don't know how I can fold QQ heads up when there is no A or K or pair of Jacks or 10s on the board by the river. I guess maybe I could have gotten tricky and check/called the flop, check/raised the turn, and bet out on the river to put more pressure on him, but at a $4-$8 table he wasn't going to fold Kings without an A on the board heads up, and ultimately I would have just lost another big bet. I equate having an overpair to being on an island. You're hoping you have the best hand but you're never really 100% sure of where you're at. This can be particularly tricky in a No Limit Hold Em tournament when you have an overpair and the flop comes low. At these times it's best not to make a difficult decision when you don't have to. If you hold AA and the flop comes 10 7 5 and an opponent goes all-in in front of you, you have a tough decision, it the opponent has JJ QQ or KK, then he has two outs, but if he has 1010 77 or 55 then YOU have two outs with your bullets. At times like these it's best not to make difficult decisions. Consider the bettor, his style, and his tendencies. Consider the size of the pot, is it worth fighting over? Consider his stack, can you absorb his all-in and survive with a viable stack? Does he have you covered? Also consider the board texture - could he be pushing you off with a flush draw? A straight draw? It's a tough decision, if your overpair does beat another overpair on the flop then you're a 91% favorite. However if your overpair is up against a set then you're a 91% dog. Much the same with pocket pairs pre-flop, if you have a pocket pair and you're up against a bigger pocket pair you're about a 82% dog. Remember this the next time you want to raise all-in over the top of an early position raiser with your 1010 or JJ. Oh yes there was in fact a question in here...do you have any good strategies for the play of overpairs (to the board) in ring games and in No Limit tournaments? Do you break them into groups (AA KK) (QQ JJ) (1010 99) and play them with the aggressiveness that they deserve? Any ideas for laying down an overpair since you think you're either up against a bigger overpair or a flopped set? | ||
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| Re: Overpair Limbo - Thoughts and Strategies?, pt_Gatsby, 18. Aug 2003 10:10 | ||
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| I think there are a few different trains of thought, but everything I have read that uses numbers has suggested the following: For ring games: AA, KK and QQ all have positive (automatic) EV. It dominates the other good hands (especially AA), and really the worst return you will see are small connected suited cards... which is far from being 'negative'. AA dominates over KK and QQ as KK dominates for QQ, but over infinite time (the famous disclaimer) they will return you money. In other words, the more money in the pot when you have them, the better. As for strategy, that's pretty much it. I will release high pairs when the flop comes up horribly co-ordinated (3 of a suit with too many people, ect) since at that point, playing to the end will end up costing you money. However, the goal is to always get as much money into the pot before that. Its important to remember that improving your hand is not as likely, so you aren't looking for anything specifically. If a pair comes up, you should be hiking it up even more, its your ideal situation - why? Because they have only 2 'outs' in their cards and you are pretty much guaranteed to win the two pair hand (AA especially). ie: AA vs 89s has 77.52 vs 22.48 before the flop (~), while with a pair of tens, including a matching suit (the flop being 10 10s x x x), you will win 80.77 vs 19.23. I mean, you can go as far as this: AA vs 89s, flop 10o 10s Js and still have a coin flip situation. Your advantage is huge. It seems to only be perception that mars the value of the top pairs. True, you won't win all that often (ie: less than 50%) of the time against a table that won't leave, but you will end up winning far more than you lose so long as you can play enough of them. As far as knocking people out, I think it's largely irrelevant. If it gets you money in the pot its good for you, and if you reduce variance (ie: less players = win more often rather than having larger swings) its good for you. Just remember, they should get AA as often as you do. As for tournaments: I think there are only a couple of things that can be said. Survive(1st) and crush your opponents(2nd). If you have a large stack, push em around with any good hand. With a short stack, you might as well attempt to double up. It doesn't get any better than that. The rest of the time, you have to decide based on the table, the stacks, your position, your ranking (how far to the money)... even your table image, for that matter. --- As far as rankings: AA, KK and QQ are my top hands - they are the only hands where I believe (against popular opinion) there is no benefit in chasing people out - just so long as you get optimal money into the pot, anyway. JJ, 1010 are my final two high pairs that I'll play to the flop, generally. Pairs below that depends on the table and position. | ||
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| Re: Overpair Limbo - Thoughts and Strategies?, PairTheBoard, 18. Aug 2003 10:31 | ||
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| I think you got out remarkably cheap on that play. I would be happy in that situation not to lose more. The best I know to do is to slow down after a raise or two convinces me I may be in trouble. jmo | ||
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