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Server Time: 12/1/2008 10:13:12 PM PACIFIC |
 Phils book junk or gold, Tim C, 15. Aug 2003 13:17 | ||
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| I have read Phils book and used some of his ideas, and find they work. I have also heard comments from good players who think his book is trash. Would like to hear from other players who have read the book, and tried his ideas. If possible a review from our mentor Mr. Roy Cooke or other top players. Thank You | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, Mark, 15. Aug 2003 14:11 | ||
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| I think Phil's book is pretty good, but what you need to understand while reading it, is that he is a pro who has uncanny reading abilities. The same debate has come up regarding Brunson's Super System. Some people don't like the style he advocates, but that is because most people can't pull it off. In order to effectively use a pro's card theory, you must also have many of the other traits that pro possess (such as extremely good card reading, a very aggressive style, and a huge bankroll doesn't hurt). So, while i like what phil has to say, some others won't and they may be right, for themselves. Like all other poker decisions, it depends on a huge number of factors such as: opponents style stacks emotional control your stack style emotional control the game etc,etc, etc, If it is working for you, don't let others' negative opiniions convince you to stop using a profitable style. I realized this a while back when i was just starting out. Mike Caro suggested that beginners buy Poker for Dummies along with other low limit books. I thought book was the single biggest waste of money I ever experienced. I still think its garbage, but Mike likes it and how can i argue his success. Mark | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, jon seal, 15. Aug 2003 15:25 | ||
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| Just read it. Great read with some good ideas . Particularly impressed with it as it is one of the only books that teach you an aggresive style and how to play after the flop well . Sklansky teaches you ideas , but Phils book teaches you how to think !! Both different but excellent learning books and by far the best that Ive read. Not confusing/conflicting ideas like many other books. As for Poker for Dummies ~ ihave a mate who swears by using it he is running amock at low limits on Will Hill , but it is extremely limited , noteably missing any detail on Pot odds. | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, Guru, 15. Aug 2003 15:40 | ||
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| I bought Hellmuth's book the day it came out and I've read it about three times with lots more looks back for a bit of info or two. I also have about five other books in my library. I think it's hard to call Phil's book good or bad on it's own. There is a lot of good information from an outstanding poker mind, but I think you really have to take the advice in context. Remember Phil has been playing high limit poker for twenty years and also can be more aggressive and take a few more chances based on his ability to read opponents and situations. While it's arguable hat Phil is (or anyone can be) as good as he thinks he is, there is no doubt he is among the best ever to play the game. All that said, I think the following things apply to his book. 1) I really believe it's much more of an advanced play book. Even the beginner's section tends to have some slightly advanced concepts. I think that if you handed the book to an absolute beginner that knew nothing of poker and said, "play like this", that person will get hammered 99% of the time. Beginners generally can't play Phil's style and get away with it. 2) I believe a lot of the advice doesn't translate very well to low limit. He advocates a pretty aggressive style that requires a lot of betting. In higher limits, where you can push people off of marginal or drawing hands, that style works well. In low-limit, however, I think it can be a recipe for losing monster pots against people not smart enough to fold when the odds are against them. It also creates wild chip swings that beginners would have a lot of trouble with. All told, the book is a good lesson in poker with a lot of good advice, but it shouldn't be anyone's first or only book. I would also hold of reading it until you have enough playing experience to be able to add the knowledge to your game where appropriate. | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, Swagman, 17. Aug 2003 18:43 | ||
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| I would stay away from this book if your beginning at hold'em. I think it will do much to damage your game if you haven't read other stuff. Primarily, because Helmuth doesn't dwell enough on the exceptions to his rules, and without knowing explicitly about the exceptions, a newbie playing the game as as aggressively as Phil suggests will have a hard time of it. | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, LJH, 15. Aug 2003 18:56 | ||
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| TIM C, I HAVE READ HIS BOOK AND FOUND IT VALUABLE, IF NOT OUTSTANDING. LJH | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, Tim C, 15. Aug 2003 19:50 | ||
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| Thanks for all the feedback, I think the book is one of the best I have read. I just heard so many negative comments I was beginning to doubt my judgement. Thanks again. | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, mroban, 16. Aug 2003 05:39 | ||
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| I love Phil's book and there are some great ideas, particularly with regard to putting players in certain categories (jackal, mouse, etc.) and adjusting your play based on your competition. I found this concept extremely helpful and profitable. The aggressive style he espouses MUST be adjusted based on your reads of your competition. If you cannot really be sure a guy is a mouse, you should probably play more straightforward against him (e.g. not fold your AK against his preflop raise). I got into a little bit of trouble using his "bet to find out where you are at" technicque after the flop. I was getting involved too heavily in hands that I should have gotten away from. But in re-reading the book several times, it is easy to take that advice out of context. There are certain times when he would not advise doing that. Anyway, using Sklansky's theories with the parts of Phil's book that I feel I am comfortable with (and are suitable to low limit online play which is what I mostly play) has been fairly profitable for me. I have re-read both books many times. This is just my opinion though, certainly not an expert. | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, rick b, 17. Aug 2003 18:20 | ||
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| I to have read the book, very little is really brand new. I have too many poker books , and everything in Phils book is been mentioned before, sorry Phil. | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, Mark, 18. Aug 2003 09:42 | ||
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| Rick Who else has advvocated raising with small pairs and AXs in EP? My library is still expanding ( 12-15 books) but i have not come across such agg play with these hands. Mark | ||
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| Re: Phils book junk or gold, guinnessman, 18. Aug 2003 10:31 | ||
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| I have found his book to be very useful. I have cut way back on my hand selection after reading it and have changed from a win some/ lose some player to averaging $18 hour per 3-6 online table I play. If my game starts going sour, I go back and re-read the holdem sections just to realign my game. Guinnessman | ||
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